Need help identifying 2 x Rifles

[rmorman]

Howdy all!
First time post. I am looking to purchase some ammunition for two Japanese rifles that my Grandfather has. The only thing he knows for sure is that one is 31 and the other one 25 caliber. After doing a little research on Google, I THINK one of them is a “Type 99” Arisaka rifle and the other is a “Type 38” Arisaka rifle. For the .31 Cal, is this the right ammunition? “HORNADY AMMO 7.7x58 JAPANESE 150gr SP 20/BX 10/CS” For the .25 Cal, is this the right ammo? “HORNADY AMMO 6.5x50 JAPANESE 140gr SP 20/BX 10/CS” Any help is appreciated as I'd like to purchase the ammunition for him for Christmas. He e-mailed me a couple of pictures. I've attached them below.










THANKS!
Russ

 

[justin22885]

the two calibers for japanese WWII rifles was the 6.5x50mmSR cartridge in the type 38s and 7.7x58mm in the type 99s

 

[Ohen Cepel]

You are on the right track, may be able to find other ammo options besides Hornady but not many.

Make sure you run a rod down the bore to make sure there are no obstructions if they haven't been shot in years.

 

[justin22885]

its not a .25 cal, its 6.5mm or .264 cal, but the ammo you listed is what youd need, the 6.5 will be a bigger pain to find and purchase but the 7.7x58 you can make yourself if you wish to get into hand loading

 

[rmorman]

Thanks SOOOO much everybody! I have a great friend who is good with firearms. He has agreed to clean the rifles and we might even assemble something to fire them remotely for the first round or two. They have not been fired since the 2nd World War. I've very excited about seeing these things fired and letting my 89 year old Grandfather fire them.
Thanks again!
Russ

 

[kBob]

yeppers, those are a 7.7 type 99 and 6.5 type 38 from the looks of things. Things also look rather good.

Don't beat grand pappy up over the .25 and .31 terms. Despite the young folks prissiness, that IS what folks called the calibers during WWII whether it was correct or not.

Sort of like the "Long Colt" thing, folks called the .45 Colt 1873 cartridge that whether folks today get upset if you do or not.

You might want to check to see that the type 38 has not ben converted to .257, though as it appears it is un molested and not "sporterized" that is less a worry. Folks had the rifles they planned to shoot a bit rechambered for a more easily available in the US ammo sometimes.

If none of you or yours really know much about these guns , have them at least looked at by an actual gunsmith, not a gun sales person, but a mechanic for guns.

-kBob

 

[USAF_Vet]

Graf and Sons also makes ammo for the Arisaka rifles. I own a Type 38, and it is indeed a 6.5x50 semi rimmed cartridge. The Hornady is a good round. Norma also manufactures some. Keep in mind, they are limited factory runs, and on the expensive side. It's not something easy on the wallet if you shoot it a lot.

Graf & Sons and I believe PVRI Partisan make ammo and brass. Graf is the least expensive, Norma is the most. Graf does have some 6.5 in stock. Can't find Hornady in stock anywhere for my 6.5, not even the Norma.

Once upon a time, Lee had reloading dies for each caliber.

 

[thump_rrr]

Graf and Sons also makes ammo for the Arisaka rifles. I own a Type 38, and it is indeed a 6.5x50 semi rimmed cartridge. The Hornady is a good round. Norma also manufactures some. Keep in mind, they are limited factory runs, and on the expensive side. It's not something easy on the wallet if you shoot it a lot.

Graf & Sons and I believe PVRI Partisan make ammo and brass. Graf is the least expensive, Norma is the most. Graf does have some 6.5 in stock. Can't find Hornady in stock anywhere for my 6.5, not even the Norma.

Once upon a time, Lee had reloading dies for each caliber.

They are limited run dies but they are readily available.
Lee 6.5x50 Japanese Arisaka Two Die Set #90730
Lee 7.7 Japanese 3 Die Set #90733

 

[justin22885]

i just read you can get cheap (10 cents a piece) .308 once fired blanks, trim, anneal, and resize those for 6.5x55mm, might work for 7.7x58mm too and be cheaper than buying actual 7.7mm brass or resizing 30-06

 

[db_tanker]

the 30-06 is what I have been told to use for the 7.7 Arisaka rounds.

If I remember my PO Ackley readings correctly, the Type 99 early war rifles were brutes for their strength. later war models were questionable on the heat treatment so if you plan on doing crazy loadings and such be sure to have them checked over by a smith!


I have also been told that the bolt shrouds sometimes don't make it. That and the one rifle also still has a nice looking albeit partially destroyed chrysanthemum. VERY NICE.

 

[tark]

rmormon, those are a couple of nice looking rifles. Ammo for both is made by PPU and is reasonable. The 7.7 can also have ammo made from 30-06 brass. Very simple. Remove the decapper from a 7.7 die, grease up the 06 brass and run it in. Trim to length. load with .311 bullets.

The 7.7 should have a chrome lined bore. Look at the muzzle of the gun. There should be a ring of whitish metal visible around the rifling. That is the chrome, and the bore should be in very good shape. Chrome was (is) pretty much immune to rust and corrosion. The Japanese were the first to realize this, and the chrome lined bores in the tropic environment held up very well.

The rifling itself does not look like the standard Enfield type, it appears more rounded. This is normal. The 6.5s were not chromed, and one with a good bore is harder to fine.

Now for the dirty little tricks department. Many 7.7s will chamber 308/7.62 Nato ammo. Most will not, but will come ever so close. If yours will chamber them, it is perfectly safe to fire them. The type 99 is one of the strongest actions in existence and you will be pushing an undersize bullet down the bore anyway. The fired cases will look much like a 308 fired in an 06 chamber, but the practice is safe and accuracy is often surprisingly good.

I know I will soon be hearing howls of anguish, warning that this practice is a good way to kill one's self. Before they start, consider; The 308, if it chambers at all, will wedge itself tightly against the bolt face. The 308 is an almost straight walled case and the beginning of the shoulder will contact the tapered chamber walls, assuring a tight headspace. Your rifle is quite obviously NOT one of the substitute standard rifles made cheaply at the end of the war. The 99 action is very strong, they can be safely re chambered or re-barreled to anything that is short enough to feed through the action. The myth about the 7.7 round being larger in diameter than the 06 (or 308) is just that, a myth. If you measure a 7.7 round you will find that there is only .002 difference, and that the 7.7 is SMALLER! My gun does not chamber them, so I run the rounds into a full length 7.7 die (again, removing the de-capper) and then they will chamber.

All is this is dependent on one thing....take the gun to a smith and make sure it is safe to fire in the first place. I've got a mountain of fired 7.62 Nato brass that was generated by my type 99. So, if you have trouble finding 7.7 ammo, you know what to do....

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

You can use this link to learn more about your Arisaka's. http://oldmilitarymarkings.com/japanese_markings.html

I started by finding an old Japanese bayonet at a flea market. I now have 4 Arisaka carbines, 6 long rifles, and 3 bayonets so be careful. They are addicting... The type 38's are older than the type 99's.

 

[GarandBragger]

Be careful taking the 99 apart. The screws are "staked" and removing them can reduce some of the value.