Need help identifying powder

[snuffy]

Back about 10 years a local gun shop operator sold powder in Styrofoam cups with a good lid on them. He got powder in the big black kegs, he simply weighed out the powder in 1# lots. Each cup was marked with the powder # and lot #. This was mainly shotgun powder for the guys that shot a lot of trap. It was probably used up in a matter of a couple months. I never heard of any problems with it, but he quit doing it because of insurance concerns.

I've stored powder in coffee cans. still have some stored that way. The plastic lid seals well enough, it would pop off easily in case of fire. Hercules used paper tubes for it's powder for many years. People just have to get past the notion that powder soaks up moisture from the air, it doesn't.

 

[txgho1911]

Are we going to get pics of the KabOOM posted for posterity? How about the body.
Your lightly charged load using Unique data can easily be a double of Clays.
You have zero respect for this side hobby and for some occupation referred to as reloading. I doubt you have much respect for the shooting sports as a whole.

My Clays looks like smaller flakes than Jibjab's unique above. I could easily be wrong.

 

[mrawesome22-250]

A co-worker recently told me he had some gun powder of his recently deceased Grandfather's in his basement and that I could have it. So he brings it in and it is in a brown paper bag with the words "Red Dot" hand written on it. Probably two pounds. I gladly accepted it and took it home with me.

I assumed it had drawn too much moisture to even be good so I made a little pile and woosh. Still good. I then made about 4 more piles and lit them.

Anyway, there is no way I would even consider using a powder that was no longer in it's original container.

 

[Capt. Capsize]

Still in one piece!

Well shucks, I still have all my fingers and eyeballs. Loaded up a dozen rounds of "mystery powder" up to 7.2 grains in .357, 125 gr. jhp and went to the range today. Tried first few in t.c. before trying in Ruger SP101 after firing a couple of factory 125 gr. jhp rounds for comparison purposes. Well they behaved just like a 1,000 fps 125 grain .357 slug should. If ever I thought that I was in danger I never would have tried this. To the gent that posted that pic of Unique, yup that's just how it looks. Regarding powder in coffee cans, our gun club used to purchase powder, primers, etc. in bulk and sell it to members at cost in coffee cans. I have a number of different powders stored in a cool place in coffee cans. If I had dumped this batch on the lawn I would have lost 3,000 rounds of powder. I don't recommend this practice but I went into with about a 90 percent certainty that it was Unique powder, I was just looking for some confirmation.

 

[Jim Watson]

If you were sure it was Unique, why do you think one can was labeled Herco?

If you knew what you were going to do to start with, why did you ask us?

 

[zxcvbob]

Well you guys aren't much help! I know safety is paramount but I'm not a neophyte I just don't know Unique or Herco by sight. This powder is one of them. They both have similar load data specs. I plan on loading some rounds to .38 special low pressure and fire them in my T. Contender and compare the results to rounds loaded to similar specs with my known powders. It would be helpful if someone could identify the powder by my description. Or at least say no, that doesn't sound like either one!

If you insist on doing this foolishness, assume the powder is Promo until you have better information (looks just like Herco and Unique but is as fast-burning as Red Dot.) Use 4 grains with your favorite bullet in a .38 case and fire it in a gun chambered for .357 --chronograph it to get a starting point.

I think it's a bad idea.

 

[grendelbane]

While I am a little late, I am going to post anyway. I would pour the powder out on the lawn, myself. However, my advice to any one determined to use this powder would be to fill an empty case level and weigh it. Then, compare that measurement to the same case full of a known powder. If the weight is the same, so is the density. But not necessarily the powder. Still, it is better than eye-balling it.

Of course, if the powder has been mixed, it will not match anything, will it?

 

[scrat]

Same here i may be a little late but a dollar wiser.

Here are things i am seeing that he is missing.

1 Safety It is really dangerous to try and reload a powder that you can not identify.

2. You are doing an unjust to your firearms.

3. You do not know where this powder came from

4. What are you trying to get out of it.

It sounds like you just want to blow off rounds with free powder. If thats the case and you can do it wisely then please be carefull.

Not all of us reload just to blow off rounds for no reason. Powder that is not stored in its original container no knowing where and how long its been its now container will not be consistant.

I shoot sport at the range. Im trying to duplicate shots. Im trying to hit as close as i can to the center then trying to duplicate the shots. If even better trying to get the next round through the previous hole. thats hard to do. It takes skill and a lot of patience at the range. At home it takes dedication using the best components you have that have the best consistancy. I use powder from the same lots. I will not use another powder unless i am going to change targets and be prepared for different results. its a lot of discipline.

Now back to the powder you have. You do not know how the consistancy of the powder will be. Like previously mentioned powder that is improperly stored can have bad effects (it gets bad). first signs are discoloration and smell. Next comes inconsistancy in measuring. Take a dipper measure one scoop. Now take the same dipper on a different area of the canister measure the one scoop. If the weight is different then the powder is inconsistant. Unless you have already shooken it all up. Which still will give you an inconsistant powder.

So take it or leave it. Like others have mentioned i would toss it in the rose garden. Its not worth it to me. I will buy good powder. Spend hours trying to cast consistant bullets. or use different powder in a different gun and use purchased bullets to obtain results of what im looking for.

When i want to just blow money or just shoot for the heck of it. I usually buy a couple bulks of 22lr. Still even then i can shoot still at 100 yrds. Thats on ammo that i consider not to be worth anything.

 

[TooTaxed]

Grendelbane, smart comment!

 

[JCT]

What's in nitrocellulose that is a fertilizer? Are you guys thinking of Potassium nitrate in Black powder? I never thought of smokeless as having any fertilizer qualities, but maybe the nitrogen can leech out.
If you're certain it's Herco or Unique, just average the loading data, cut by 10% and work up loads with a chronograph. This way you're below the pressure limits for both powders and you can work your way up and monitor the casings for any signs of pressure. There's no need to waste all that powder I'd do some comparison tests and work up loads, or, you could just make a 3 pound firecracker and set it aside for July 4th!

 

[redneck2]

I would assume that the "nitro" part is some form of nitrogen. IIRC from my chemistry classes 30 years ago, paper is cellulose.

 

[jacobhh]

OK, you can scrounge brass and primers are cheap, but
if you can afford jackrted bullets and club dues why
ignore widely accepted safety practices and take a
risk with unknown powder?

 

[Capt. Capsize]

How many times do I have to say it?

Good Lord, I can hardly believe the furor raised over my original post. I have already said I am not a newby reloader. I have been reloading and shooting 1,000 or so rounds a month of rifle, pistol and shotgun for over 15 years. I am 64 years old and have been into the shooting sports since I was 12 years old. I am a benchrest shooter, a two time Florida State Metallic Silhouette Pistol champ, an NRA certified rifle, pistol instructor, range officer and have taught concealed weapons license courses.

I ride fast motorcycles and have been doing so for 48 years, I take chances but I am not foolish, I wouldn't have lived so long if I was. Please don't tell me how dumb I am for doing something YOU consider risky! I don't sit around and gather dust while passing judgement on others I go out and DO IT.

 

[GaryL]

No need to get angry. You asked, and people responded the best they could.

It occurs to me that sometime in the past, before there was really good instrumentation, people took risks and figured out how to work with various types of gunpowder. We know more now and have better tools, so there's no need to take the same level of risk. As far as I'm concerned, it is possible to safely work up a useful load given a quantity of an unknown powder, but one would have to be very meticulous about it and may well use up a fair portion of said powder before reaching a reliable conclusion.

 

[Roccobro]

With an introductory thread that breaks some minor rules of reloading I think you have now been "baptized" into the Maternal Order of Reloading. Posters here just care enough to point out the very small benefit to risk ratio you had proposed without knowing your glowing resume of achievements. The original question almost seemed like a rookie question or an integrity test.

Welcome to The High Road. Thanks for the update. I know myself I now take the philosophy of as little risks as possible to stay alive. I gave up motorcycles years ago and get to shoot as much as possible because of my line of work. Reloading is only dangerous (and/or expensive) if we don't keep our heads about us while doing it.

Stay safe Capt., and again welcome abaord!

Justin

 

[zxcvbob]

Maternal Order of Reloading

The problem is, who knows who else might be reading this. Some newbie could be inspired to use that old can of unknown shotgun powder and load something really dangerous.

Sometimes public forums are just not the best place to discuss things -- even if they might really be interesting topics.

 

[Roccobro]

True, true. With many different board users being the "search function parrots" a lurker usually isn't privy to all the understanding.

Kinda why I said it looked like a Newbie question thread. I feel the appropriate response was given. Not very many experienced reloaders would have asked such a thing- especially if they knew the proper procedure to comfortably just work up a load.

Justin

 

[30Cal]

Good Lord, I can hardly believe the furor raised over my original post. I have already said I am not a newby reloader. I have been reloading and shooting 1,000 or so rounds a month of rifle, pistol and shotgun for over 15 years. I am 64 years old and have been into the shooting sports since I was 12 years old. I am a benchrest shooter, a two time Florida State Metallic Silhouette Pistol champ, an NRA certified rifle, pistol instructor, range officer and have taught concealed weapons license courses.

I ride fast motorcycles and have been doing so for 48 years, I take chances but I am not foolish, I wouldn't have lived so long if I was. Please don't tell me how dumb I am for doing something YOU consider risky! I don't sit around and gather dust while passing judgement on others I go out and DO IT.

What reaction were you expecting? You came in here stating you were going to blow-off one of the fundamental points of handloading safely. A person with your experience ought to be able to recognize what you did as a prime example of what not to do.

Stay safe.

 

[snuffy]

We don't know the "rest of the story". All Capt c said was the guy thought it was either unique or herco. The original owner was dead so he couldn't add his 2 cents. It's difficult to convey all someone knows about something via a few typed words in a post. He obviously knew more than he was able to put in his original post.

If I knew more about the powder in question, would I try to use it. Probably. But I doubt I would have made a post on any reloading forum about it. The point made about a rookie reloader seeing this is valid. It's not something that should be done.

The same can be said about the use of surplus powders available from several sources. Some of those are "pull down" powders, meaning they were loaded in ammo that has had the bullet pulled and the powder dumped-reclaimed.

Some refuse to use them, saying they can't be sure what it is. Little data is available for some of it. It is sold with "use data for H-335" for the WC 844 powder. It comes in white bleach bottles, with a label on it.

 

[BigBlack]

Heck, I logically deduced a “No” from the following scenario I was thinking off.

I purchased 300 or so rounds of military surplus ammo. I was going to pull the bullets of 50 or so and dump the powder from each in my powder dispenser and then recharge all back using pulled powder and balls but making sure they were all as exactly the same as possible.

Then the thought hit me that although these were packaged together could have at some point been mixed with other surplus using different powders thus putting me in danger.

I decided to just shoot them up and then reload them later with known components.
I am new as well but this would be dumped, I would not use it.

And NO I could not identify it if I looked at it.

 

[jrumsey]

Good for You

How many times do I have to say it?
Good Lord, I can hardly believe the furor raised over my original post. I have already said I am not a newby reloader. I have been reloading and shooting 1,000 or so rounds a month of rifle, pistol and shotgun for over 15 years. I am 64 years old and have been into the shooting sports since I was 12 years old. I am a benchrest shooter, a two time Florida State Metallic Silhouette Pistol champ, an NRA certified rifle, pistol instructor, range officer and have taught concealed weapons license courses.

I ride fast motorcycles and have been doing so for 48 years, I take chances but I am not foolish, I wouldn't have lived so long if I was. Please don't tell me how dumb I am for doing something YOU consider risky! I don't sit around and gather dust while passing judgement on others I go out and DO IT.

There is not much to add to this other than anyone who disregards established safety practices does so at their own risk. Looks like you have been getting away with it for 64 years, hope your luck holds out.

Joe

 

[TooTaxed]

BigBlack...Smart Thinking!

 

[jerkface11]

Hooray you did something stupid and dangerous and got away unscathed!!! Wooo let's tell everybody about it so the new kids will think it's OK!!!

 

[sublimaze41]

The most troubling aspect of this whole thing is that this person could have been lighting those rounds off next to some unsuspecting soul. When guns go Kb they usually shower some kind of shrapnel off.

This hobby has many inherent risks to it, heck the purpose is to start an explosion and propel a projectile at high speed. Why anyone would use an unknown agent to reload is beyond me??? Just because those rounds fired for him does not mean the whole thing was safe.

Heck I get paranoid when a top end load from various book sources is off several grains from one book to another. I wanted a "magic" 55 grain polymer tipped bullet to go 4,000 FPS once. I finally found the correct mixture using a .243 load with H380. Did it shoot better? Did it shoot 4015 FPS? Yes. The load was the highest one I could find in a major publication. This was several years ago before I started here on THR. To this day I believe that load to be safe, but I approach things much differently now.

Safety is the prinary concern here on the reloading forum. I see it again and again. I started a thread a while back about the combined experience of the reloaders here. The number of years exceeds 2,000, so if numerous people tell you a task is dangerous you might want to listen. I listen closely and have benefited greatly. At the young age of 64 you must certainly appreciate the cumulative experience from those youSOLICITED from!