Need help identifying PPK clone

[OptimusPrime]

Hello, can anyone please help me ID what i have here? I have just come across a neat little pistol that was presented to me as a Walther PPK, but now I suspect that can't be true. The grips are Walther and the magazine is a Walther, but there are no manufacturing marks on this piece. I mean zero, nada, zilch. There are 2 different serial numbers followed by "P" and "AC" on the slide and just "P" on the frame number. Same number under the grip. It is a .32 auto (actually says 7.65 on the mag) but that is it. It doesn't even have the caliber rolled on the slide. I have never seen a firearm that didn't have the caliber stamped/rolled onto the side so that was weird to me too.
I know that Turkey made some clones among other,places but this one says nothing about where it was made.
By the way, yes I am aware that the ejector is missing; it's on order. That's what is prompting this request, I was really trying to make sure I'm ordering for a PPK. Everything else about it looks to be exactly the same as a PPK including the disassembly procedure and parts schematic. Another indicator for me is that the machining on this bad boy is r o u g h. Not a very fine job at all. Machining drag marks and chatter are evident in several places.
Thanks for any help y'all can offer.

 

[Candyman87]

I can't find my copy of Marschall right now, but I'm pretty sure this one was in there under PPK clones.

That being said... do you have photos of the other side?

 

[OptimusPrime]

Roger that:
There it is, clean as a baby's complexion.

 

[Shear_stress]

Not a PPK or clone. It's a late WWII Walther PP. "Ac" was the Walther Zella-Mehlis factory code (like "byf" was Mauser's).

 

[Candyman87]

Not a PPK or clone. It's a late WWII Walther PP. "Ac" was the Walther Zella-Mehlis factory code (like "byf" was Mauser's).

My first thought as well... haven't seen one without the roll stamp though?

Mis-matched serial and missing roll stamp, any chance that this was put together by a GI from parts from the factory?

 

[OptimusPrime]

Wow, thank you for the quick info and the correction on the PP.
Why the utter lack of identifying marks, including no caliber? I would think that would be a bare minimum and baked into the process, especially on a pistol that is offered in both .380 and .32. Does it seem like this is normal for this type of PP? I guess I'm trying to say that it appears that this piece was put together from a bunch of separate parts before it could go through final inspection and rolling, rather than assembled and put together as one. Johnny Cash said it best; "one piece at a time...."
That time period would sure explain the rough surfaces. No time to polish parts in a war zone.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Candyman, that's exactly what I was thinking at the same time as you typed your response. I'll type faster next time.

 

[bannockburn]

OptimusPrime

Would agree with what Shear_stress posted: very late war PP made by Walther. Be careful if you decide to shoot it as poor quality raw materials, possibly little if any heat treatment, lack of overall quality control, and use of conscripted labor made for some highly questionable weapons being built at that time.

 

[Shear_stress]

Mis-matched serial and missing roll stamp, any chance that this was put together by a GI from parts from the factory?

The roll stamp was absent from a lot of the wartime guns, but the mis-matched numbers may indicate that it was put together after the war. That's about as much as I know--very interesting pistol!

 

[Storm]

The Walther forum should offer you good info.

BTW, my guess would be late war Zella or a GI throw together.

 

[OptimusPrime]

The stories that these old weapons could tell, right?
Thanks for all the responses. I am also worried about safety of the piece. It has certainly been fired before but by the time it came to me the cosmoline and gunk that I had to clean out of every nook and cranny made my stomach turn. It looked and smelled like the stuff that comes out of an old kitchen sink trap, yukky.
Oh well, I'll get the extractor loaded, put on some PPE, close my eyes, duck behind a shield, and see if I can't make it go bang in the proper manner.
Thanks again for all the help fellas. This remains the best site on the web for solid information and common sense suggestions.

 

[Onmilo]

Gun appears to be one assembled from parts by USGIs who took over Walther plant in 1945.
These guns were fairly common about 30 years ago and most have now landed in collections.

 

[george burns]

Also the DE cocker is too large for the slide and chewed up. It looks like someone was trying to customize or build a gun. The side of the slide has grain marks like from removing the roll mark, or just rough parts.

 

[OptimusPrime]

Good eye on the cocker/safety barrel. It is indeed all chewed up but I'm going to attribute that to lack of finishing. It is actually a series of circles and drag marks in that void area. Very similar to when you put a plunge router into a board and then go sideways to remove stock. I guess it was milled that way but then never went to the next operation to clean up the circles.
Anyway it is rough in several places like that and mismatched numbers everywhere. It functions now but I'll try to put a couple rounds through it and see what gives.

 

[WestKentucky]

I would love to run across one of those
...and I will in 2 years and 1 month. Today I am 29, next month 30. Each year I have planned a gun with some significance to the birthday, so in 2016 I will get the 32 cal Walther pp or ppk. Definitely will be a used and abused old girl unlike this year's gun...a pristine smith model 30.

 

[Schlegel]

Lack of marks is common on late war or GI put-togethers. The 380 and 32 were distinguished by mag release mechanism pre-war usually. The 380 was a heel release and had no mag catch cut out, so you could not get it to lock into the smaller caliber.

 

[sauer1911]

They built the gun upside down!

You gotta shoot it with your pinky!

be safe

 

[Jim K]

Walther kept their normal slide marking (etched, it was never roll stamped until the post-war era) through most of the war, but in late 1944 the Army simply took all the PP's they could make. Since the code marking ("ac") was the only manufacturer's ID the Army needed, and the caliber was never anything but 7.65 (.32 ACP), there was no need for the standard company marking and it was time-consuming to put on. So it was eliminated.

I see no Waffenamt eagle or proof mark. I agree that that gun was assembled after the American occupation of the Walther plant, likely from parts finished but not yet put through final assembly. Some of those parts guns were never properly hardened, so shooting it might produce some problems, though there would probably be no danger.

Jim