need help with lead bullets and 44mag/spc

[midland man]

well here's what I have I am using the mbc, 44 smasher .430dia 240gr bullets brinell hardness 18, in my rossi r92 16in barrel and I have tried these three loads, 6.5g greendot in 44 mag case, 5.2gr greendot in 44spc case, and 6.8gr sr4756 in 44spc case. so what I have is leading right where the riflings start after that no problem. so I slugged the barrel tonight and the barrel is .429 so my bullets are one thousandths oversize, so guys can someone tell me, is there anyway to make this work without leading period, thanks, :banghead:

 

[CraigC]

As long as it shoots well and doesn't get any worse than that, there is no problem.

 

[WessonOil]

Agreed.
I run a 17 brinnel cast bullet through my Ruger Super Blackhawk 10" barrell using 2400, with only a tad bit of wax/leading where rifling begins.

 

[mdi]

I'd suggest a larger bullet, mebbe .431"-.432". I personally think a softer bullet would upset better (12-14 BHN) and reduce leading, but leading at the beginning of the barrel usually comes from undersize bullets.

I've never used "Dot" powders in my .44s and only rarely Bullseye in my Special loads and usually use nothing faster than Unique and for my Puma loads I use a lot of 2400, and WC820.

BTW; SAAMI specs. for .44 Magnum rifle barrels is .431" and handguns is .429". I don't know why there is a difference, but my Puma rifle slugs .432" and I size my cast bullets to .433".

 

[Walkalong]

the barrel is .429 so my bullets are one thousandths oversize, so guys can someone tell me, is there anyway to make this work without leading period,

What are your throats? May need .431 vs .430. So 18 leads a hair at the start of the rifling, but nowhere else. My guess is a better fit to the throats and that will go away. If not, a better fit and a bit less hard of a bullet. Say 12 to 15 BHN neighborhood.

Things to try anyway.

 

[Walkalong]

I see mdi beat me too it.

I used to have a 94 in .44 Mag, and it's barrel was over .429 as well. But in this case your good there, look at the throats.

 

[buck460XVR]

BTW; SAAMI specs. for .44 Magnum rifle barrels is .431" and handguns is .429".

I've always believed this is one reason Ruger recommends against shooting lead outta it's 77/44s, since the majority of their owners are shooting .44 factory ammo intended for handguns.

 

[MEHavey]

a bit less hard of a bullet. Say 12 to 15 BHN neighborhood.

^^^^ THIS +1 ^^^^

The faster you can upset/obdurate, the less chance of any leading at all.
The harder-is-always-better crowd have done a great dis-service to folks.

 

[bluetopper]

Use a near max charge of a magnum handgun powder.

 

[midland man]

I have h110 will that work?

 

[MEHavey]

H110 (=W296) is a full-load/magnum powder (only). I would advise a gas-checked bullet before using
what it requires for a pressure regime.

Harder is not your friend w/ plain-base bullets.
Magnum powder is not your friend w/ plain-base bullets.

Go softer in the bullet/faster in the powder/moderate in the speed/sharper in the heel for such bullets.

(incidentally, I'm was just today running a S&W #3/Frontier ("Schofieldish") 45Colt using Lyman's
454190 LRNFP with a 30:1 (BN=6) bullet over 8.5gr Unique.
Clean as a whistle.

 

[TimSr]

It looks to me like you have 3 things working against you. You are loading powder puff loads for a magnum hardness bullet that is a little undersized for your gun. This also give you 3 ways to improve.

If your bullet fits your gun well, usually being overly hard for light loads won't matter.

If your bullet is a little undersize, and you are using a softer bullet, it will "expand to fit" better in your powder puff loads.

If you want to shoot the bullets you have, it will "exapnd to fit" better with more pressure behind it, so beefing up your load should help.

I don't know much about 4756 but the max for Green Dot from Alliant is 7 gr, but that is based on a super soft Speer bullet, not your MBC ones. If you can find Green Dot data for a jacketed bullet it will give you a better idea on your ceiling with that powder. My standard target load for .44 mag is a MBC 240gr SWC (BRN 18) over 24gr of 110 and my gun loves them, but its a 7 1/2" Redhawk. Its no powder puff load, though, but would be well worth trying since you have some on hand. You are probably well aware not to load below published starting loads for 110.

 

[midland man]

so if I may ask where can I buy these softer bullets? thanks guys!

 

[ku4hx]

so if I may ask where can I buy these softer bullets? thanks guys!

Check with the major bullet makers. Their Lead bullets are generally soft lead and swaged; not cast. It's been decades since I bought soft lead bullets, but Hornady and Speer used to sell them.

For example: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/61...-diameter-255-grain-lead-flat-nose-box-of-200

Note the cross hatching. That's a dead giveaway to a soft lead bullet. The grid is used to hold the lubricant as opposed to the lube grooves in a cast boolit.

 

[Walkalong]

MBC has several 12 BHN offerings in .44.

 

[MEHavey]

Also, look here:
http://www.montanabulletworks.com/44_Mag_U99O.html

Look for "Air Cooled"
and specify .430-.431"

Drop them a note. They'll steer you right.
[email protected]
Dave Jennings
Bruce Richardson
Victoria Richardson
Montana Bullet Works

"More Cowboy Action shooters are placing orders with us and most of them
want plain-based, soft alloy, easy to load bullets for their sport. We've added
two such numbers; a Lyman 44 caliber 245 grain RN and an RCBS 41 caliber
210 grain SWC. Even if you're not into dressing up, these will still make good,
low to mid-velocity practice bullets."

 

[midland man]

thanks guys I will make an order with them and so really appreciate the help!

 

[CraigC]

I've always believed this is one reason Ruger recommends against shooting lead outta it's 77/44s, since the majority of their owners are shooting .44 factory ammo intended for handguns.

You sure about that? Or is it only the autos due to the gas system?

 

[joem1945]

I had a leading problem with .41 mag and .44 mag. I was using AA#2. I switched to AA#9 and the problem went away. My thought was the powder burnt too hot to fast. I shoot mbc Brin 18 in both guns.

 

[dgod]

Try using Gas Checks, the will prevent the Lead from melting in the barrel.

How Fast are the bullets??

 

[TimSr]

MBC has several 12 BHN offerings in .44

^^^^

 

[CLP]

You sure about that? Or is it only the autos due to the gas system?

77/44 is their bolt action rifle isn't it? Are you thinking about their semi-auto 44 RM rifle they used to make?

 

[stubbicatt]

Some powders are cast bullet friendly, others not so much. I have found that 2400 and 4227 work really well in 44 mag and 357 mag. I haven't tried Green Dot, so cannot comment on its friendliness. However, the non friendly powders lead right at the throat, if that is the issue. I agree that a softer alloy, properly sized, with decent bullet lube, will give you better performance. Sometimes I cast a 30-1 alloy and shoot it at moderate powder charges and get great performance.

I would melt the lube out of the ones that I bought in the mail and re-lube them with a softer, better, lube.

However, OP, sounds like the lube is adequate to the muzzle of your barrel, as there is no leading at that point.

 

[midland man]

and I was looking at another bullet from mbc which is 240gr at 12bhn instead of 18bhn so I think i'll try that next as I currently using the cowboy 1 with a bhn of 12 in my leveraction rossi in 45c and I don't get any leading with it and 6.8gr greendot so I am thinking on going to this other 44c bullet with bhn of 12 and try the greendot once again. thanks guys! keep the comments, ideas coming!

 

[buck460XVR]

You sure about that? Or is it only the autos due to the gas system?

Quite sure......


From the owners manual of my 77/44.....

Most .44 Magnum ammunition factory loaded to U.S. industry specifications is suitable for use. However, “Medium Velocity” non-jacketed ammunition may not give optimum accuracy and is not recommended.