Need help with rifle selection

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BlackNet

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
429
Location
confusion
I am looking for a factory rifle for round ball's to use for the club matches on the monthly weekend meets. The requirements are it has to shoot a round ball, has to be a rifle. I would like something that is very accurate and reliable. What the other members are using are most all custom jobs but even then they seem to be equal of many factory rifles I have looked at.

The claim is that the 'custom' rifles they are using is better than a name brand for whatever reasons but I don't buy it because both of them use the same barrels, same locks and similar/same triggers.

Anyways. I have somewhat narrowed down my list and was hoping someone here could give some pointers on which one would be the better buy.

Traditions Shenandoah 50 cal percussion, midway has them for $509.99 dealer cost.

Pedersoli Kentucky rifle 45 caliber percussion $540, flint $650 at dixie.

Lyman great plains rifle 50 cal 1:66 twist, percussion $525 at dixie.

Pedersoli Pennsylvania 45 cal percussion, $750 at dixie
 
If you are going for a new rifle, I would reccomment the Lyman, but you can definitely find cheaper prices from other outlets.

I strongly suggest that you actually handle the rifles before buying. A buddy of mine recieved a flinter as a christmans present from his wife. Don't recall what brand, the drop is so low that a person must lay his head over the stock horizontally just to see the sights. Fortunately he is very short and we fixed the problem by putting higher sights on the gun. But it does look goofy with 5/8 inch high sights on it.

I am average. 6 ft with with slightly longer arms than normal, (34 inch sleeves) The lyman factory stock fits like a dream.

If a used gun will suit, an older used percussion CVA frontier rifle, is a pretty accurate gun for the money. They run about $150 on the net auction sights. One of the more accurate production guns I own is a Investarms Hawken with a replacement barrel. Cabelas sells then new. If you are going with percussion, whether the gun is factory or custom makes less difference. There is a huge extreme in function and quality of flint locks, not so much with percussion locks.

If you are shooting in competitions IMO double set triggers are a must. The 1980's Spanish guns generally had very good round ball rifling. Don't know what Traditions is putting out today. Avoid any compromise rifling like 1"48 that is supposed to be good for bullets and balls.

If you are in no where, go to a few matches and ask to handle the guns to measure them up for purchase.

When considering options keep in mind that there is a certain Chevy vs Ford brand loyalty amongst shooters. Some will swear by TC guns. I generally swear AT TC guns. Although they make an almost first rate percussion gun,the barrels aren't as good for round ball shooting and they don't fit me as well as a Lyman Great Plains Rifle stock does.

Seems like you have been doing your homework. Do a little more. shoulder the models and see how they fit, do you have to cant (tilt) your head to see the sights, etc. Does it fit you naturally.

Some foreign guns must be designed for Midgets. Plenty pretty but insufficient drop and pull. Some guns have cast off others don't. Cast off is the amount by which the butt stock seems out of line with the center of the barrel. A good fitting gun will have at least a small amount of cast off. Some makers have none. Cast off becomes especially important for men with wide shoulders.

Every one is built differently. Some manufacturers take short cuts in stock shape and they end up with guns that don't fit so well. Even some more expensive guns don't fit as well as others. That is why handling them is soo very important.
 
Keep in mind that given the same quality barrels, it comes down to how the shooter handles things.

Weigh the balls and separate them according to weight. Not all swaged or casted balls will weigh the same. This becomes crucial when you shoot as each ball will behave according to its weight.

Find the right patch thickness, ball (diameter and weight) and powder combination that yields the most accurate results. This means tedious note keeping as you jot down that combination over several range sessions. What you're looking for is the perfect blend of the three and then rigid adherence to that combination.

I know a one time FL state champion and he won with a Spanish kit gun. His competitors had big name made guns and he took it with a cheapie (cost wise).
 
One thing I failed to mention is that I have around $600 of in store credit with the local gun shop and they can/will order me whatever I want. I do not want a used gun by no means.

Ball size, patch thickness, shooting style/method is irrelevant to this post as I would like to focus on which make/model to get first.

As for kits goes I am in the middle of a house move and *ALL* of my shop equipment is boxed up and still waiting to be moved to my new house here. I cant move it just because there is several things that need to be done first at the new house before any of the shop equipment can come over. So I would have to say that at this point most kits are out of the picture as well except for the drop dead easy kits like pedersoli.
 
Last edited:
If you're dead set on a factory gun I'm going to weigh in on the side of the Lyman GPR. I have two and they are very good, accurate rifles. Pedersolis have excellent reputations but I only have a shotgun by Pedersoli so I can't really comment on them. I would say in defense of Thompson Center that they make a fine rifle IF you can get a 1-66 barrel. Unfortunately those are hard to find. Look up the Lyman GPR prices at MidSouth Shooters Supply; I think you'll do much better.

Now a few words about custom vs factory guns. There's a great deal more to a rifle than barrel, lock and trigger. Zimmerstutzen's post contains a great deal of wisdom about fitting the rifle to you and you'd be well served to follow it if you're going to compete with the gun. The custom guns do use many of the same parts as some of the better factory guns, but there's no substitute for getting one made that's right for you and what you intend to use it for.

Oh, and one more thing: the GPR will require a 'break in' period of about 100 rounds. When you first fire it you'll be very disappointed with it's accuracy and consistency, but stick with it. Somewhere around 100 rounds you'll start shooting cloverleafs or one-hole groups. If you're up to it, it'll do the job.
 
I used to shoot a Pedersoli Kentucky rifle and currently have a couple of Pedersoli shotguns. They are all good quality guns. You would be very happy with the quality of the Pedersoli guns.

I do not think that you can get an ideal production gun and will have to make some trade offs. Here are my thoughts:

(1) I echo the advice about handling the gun before you buy it. Get the gun which feels the best in your hands. They will all shoot pretty well.

(2) If you are just going to be shooting targets, I would prefer the 45 caliber guns over the 50 caliber guns. I my view, there is no real advantage of the bigger bores for target shooting. The 45 caliber is cheaper to shoot and has less recoil.

(3) I think the Pedersoli guns have a 1:48 twist. That is less than ideal for a 45 caliber round ball. The 1:48 twist is really a compromise for shooting both round balls and conicals. If you are shooting only round balls, I would prefer a slower rate of twist than 1:48 for 45 caliber and above.

(4) For target shooting, I would prefer the longer barrel on the Pedersoli Pennsylvania. I think the Pennsylvania has a 42 inch barrel which would give you a better sight radius.
 
Cool. The #1 problem I have with the great plains is 11ish pounds!

I was/am leaning towards the Shenandoah rifle. I did read you can get them in 45 cal and in flint, 7 pounds 3 oz is not bad at all and easily manageable. Even in 50 cal would be workable at that weight.

The difference, besides cosmetic, in the Shenandoah and Great Plains is, 1.5" longer barrel, 1:66 vs 1:60 twist, 7 lbs 3 oz vs 11.6 lbs.

I have several pedersoli pistols I have built and the #1 problem with the rifles they make is the twist rate, 1:48, it's general purpose and all that but this will be almost exclusively for round ball. I do have a kentucky pistol in flint I use from time to time at the range.
 
If you're not carrying the rifle afield for hunting, why is 11 lbs too much? I would think the heavier rifle would have an advantage in target competition. Are you shooting offhand or light bench?

Of course it's a personal thing, but I'm better offhand with a heavier rifle (up to a limit, of course); my wobble is smaller.

Ed: The twist difference won't matter; they're essentially the same.
 
Because 11 pounds is to much weight to be moving around at the range for an extended period of time. 6-7 pounds is about the ideal weight for a rifle, esp when you are free holding it. Sure if you are going to cheat and use sticks, sand bags, beams, rest and other cheat devices then 25 pounds is not to heavy for a rifle but lets see you fire 50 rounds in a few short hours and see how much trembling you have with a 11-12 pound rifle vs a 7 pound rifle.

For this one it will be free holding it for extended periods of time, no bench bs, no props, no rest, just pure hand holding.
 
A "normal" Pedersoli tryon, that i use for match, with 1:48 twist, with a .445 round ball, a 0,01 patch, and 37 grains of FFFg, can make a single hole of 1" at 50mt with 10 shot, with the rifle on the rest, offhands depends only from you:)
This make it a good match rifle, not intended for hunt.
My Pedersoli Hawken .54 cal with a .530 round ball, a 0,01 patch and 59 grains of FFg, make a 2" group at 50mt (55yds) on the rest, but it's heavy and the 13 shot of a match offhand make me tired and don't keep the group until the end of the match:mad:

terno.jpg
[/IMG]

Here the muzzle of the Hawken (first on left) with his big .54 hole, this barrel have a long twist good for round ball only!
ciao
Rusty
 
Blacknet,
You might consider a Pedersoli Mortimer. A beautiful piece and very acurate. I have one in flintlock 54 with an additional 12 ga. barrel. A pleasure to shoot with roundballs for sure! Any of those mentioned are good guns though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Low b/p rifle loads?
Replies
10
Views
583
alsask
A
R
  • Locked
Dixie Lancaster rifle
Replies
7
Views
749
RWMC
R
Tacoma
  • Locked
Ball & patch selection?
2
Replies
43
Views
3K
Dog Soldier
Dog Soldier
BigBore44
  • Locked
I Need Guidance, Experience, and Information
Replies
9
Views
539
rp77469
R
S
  • Locked
Shooting Flint
Replies
3
Views
535
[email protected]
K
Back
Top