Ball & patch selection?

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Tacoma

Tacoma

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So I just bought a Pedersoli percussion (Alamo) rifle in .45 cal. I know the gun has a 1:48" twist but little else. ( Read: I'm pretty green at muzzle loader stuff.) I'd like to buy what I need to get started shooting but am a little confused. I see balls offered in size at 430, 433,440,445 and 451". I also see patches at 5,10 ,15 and 20 thousandths thickness (in lubed and unlubed.)
My goal is to come up with an accurate load for 50 and 100 yd paper punching with pyrodex powder.
So, What would you recommend I start with ?
What is the magic formula for figuring out what combination has potential best accuracy?
Do I need to measure the bore first?
Any brands/products to look for or avoid?

ANY advice and or steerage to reference material is appreciated!
 
Pedersoli has an owner's manual online as a place to start:

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/supporto/14MUZZLELOADING_GUNS_MANUAL.pdf

Sam Fadela wrote several books on blackpowder shooting, and they are good references. You might find one in a library, or bookstore, or online. The pinned topics in this forum are terrific references.

A rough rule of thumb for a starting powder charge is 1.5 times the caliber, which is about 65 to 70 grains of 2F powder (Pyrodex RS) under a round ball. I would not go over 100 grains in a .45 caliber. Another rule of thumb is to listen for the sharp "crack" of the bullet going supersonic (>1100 feet per second); if the projectile is going that fast, it will penetrate a deer. 70 grains should produce that velocity. Many find that faster velocities give better accuracy, but you may find your rifle producing smaller groups with lower powder charges, in the 50 to 60 grain range. Guns are like snowflakes, each one is different.

I use pillow ticking lubed with PAM cooking spray for a round ball patch. I assume your rifle has rifling that stops short of the muzzle opening. Use a ball with a diameter such that you can push the patched ball into the muzzle opening with finger pressure but have a snug fit. Then use a ball starter, a short ramrod about 6 inches long to push the patched ball into the rifling. Then finish seating the ball all the way down onto the powder, using the long ramrod, with some compression of the powder (NO AIR GAPS between powder and ball!) The patched ball should offer some resistance, enough that you ensure that it will not come unseated, but you should not have to pound it in there. Mine is a .54 so I can't be more specific on the best ball diameter for your rifle. You might have to contact Pedersoli.

Clean promptly after shooting, lots of soapy water, especially with Pyrodex as it tends to be more corrosive than some others. Avoid petroleum based lubes; "natural" lubes containing water keep fouling soft. Crisco, Thompson-Center Bore Butter, vegetable oils like canola oil are commonly used. You will find accuracy improves if you swab out the bore after every shot or two.

Some 1:48 bores will shoot saboted slugs better than round balls. You have much fun experimentation ahead of you.
 
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I don't know about any magic formulas. ..but my 45 shoots well with a .440 round ball and a .015 patch. You can get pretty good patch lube/bore cleaner from Amazon.com hoppes black powder solvent works good. It is specifically designed for black powder. I also lube with mink oil.
Start about 45 grains of 3f goex or suisse other real black powder. Work up from there. Mine is comfortable and accurate at 55gr. I go up to 70grs for hunting deer or long range paper punches.
My .015 pocket drill patch lubed with mink oil and .440 ball over 55gr of 3f Goex will go about a dozen shots before needing swabbed. That's pretty good.
 
I built my first rifle in 45c flintlock I assume yours is percussion and that's a good place to start! I built mine last year and its a traditions Kentucky rifle I bought it from Dixie gun works check them out pretty cool place for muzzeloading supplies guns etc! but I use 50grs of 3f goex which is real blackpowder as flintlocks don't use substitute powders only real blackpowder only in which I use this in all my blackpowder guns now, as I love this stuff!! :) I also use a 18ths patch and I don't not prelube it at all I only have the patches cut out to size as I buy my material at Walmart as I take my dial calipers in and mic the thickness to what I want to use and I get 100% cotton material! I only lube my patches right before i load them plus I make my own lube using sheeps tallow 2 parts to 1 part of beeswax, works great and if you get on youtube theres a guy on there showing how to make this lube his name is mike and goes by duelist I can't remember the rest but he's easy to find! but overall I love my Kentucky rifle in 45c and this hobbie just gets better :):) if you have anymore questions feel free to ask the guys here as they are great plus i'll help as much as I can!
 
Truly appreciated. Guess I'm on my way. I just ordered a used copy of the black powder handbook and down loaded the manual. With what I have here so far, I think I know what I need to start making some smoke. I'll hunt up a the basic tools (powder measure, ball starter etc) next. Then order some ammo components at the LGS. (Unless there is a better suggest source?)
Both gun clubs I belong to have a small contingent of traditional BP enthusiasts, it's just a matter of hunting them down I guess as they don't meet all that often from what I can tell.
I'm getting pretty excited. Should be a good winter study and maybe the start of something fresh for me in the shooting world!
p.s. Beautiful rifles there!
 
IMO, I'd start with 50 grains 2fg goex ( Or sub powder) .018" patches and .440" round balls.
I'd also up grade the nipple to the Knight Red Hot.
 
Back in the day the rifle was loaded with a very undersized ball and a thick patch. The firewall was achieved by using over powder wads. This allowed faster loading with fouled bores.
The ball starter and tightly patched balls is a modern concept in muzzle loading. A properly sized ball and a patch such as cotton drill from Walmart performs a secure firewall. There are many magic home made lubes. The Hoppe's Black Powder Plus contains kerosene and is the best lube I have found.
 
So if I can ask. seems like allot of you prefer to make your own patches from local stock. So how do you cut your patches to the right size? Is there a punch ro something that can be had/made?
 
Ok, so a patch can be square? I was thinking it needed to be round. Square seems doable. Off to Wal-Mart tomorrow.

p.s. Goex fffg and .440 .445 and .451 balls ordered tonight.
 
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Tacoma said:
Ok, so a patch can be square? I was thinking it needed to be round. Square seems doable. Off to Wal-Mart tomorrow.
Click to expand...
take your micrometers and mic the material for around 18ths, 15ths and 10ths small amounts and try each size to see what your rifle shoots best then stick with it even try not only .440 but if that dosent give you what you want try the .445dia balls with the thinner patch etc! its all trial and error! but a labor of love! :)
 
Just cut a 2" strip of patch material, maybe a foot long. Wet one end damp (not sopping) in your mouth.
Lay it across the muzzle and drive a ball into the barrel (short starter and/or piece of wood) until flush.
Then using a sharp knife, cut the patch material flush with the muzzle.

Done.... (and it's automatically perfectly circular)
 
midland man said:
take your micrometers and mic the material for around 18ths, 15ths and 10ths small amounts and try each size to see what your rifle shoots best then stick with it even try not only .440 but if that dosent give you what you want try the .445dia balls with the thinner patch etc! its all trial and error! but a labor of love! :)
Click to expand...
I look forward to it. This make perfect sense now!
 
muzzeloading is fun next after this I bet you'll want a 1851 navy in 36c and then the maddnes never stops lol! I have two 1851 navies and are looking at a b/p shotgun plus a 32c flintlock rifle for next year to hunt squirrels with the b/p fever hit me!! :):)
 
I use a Hole saw kit from Harbor Freight. Just grind the saw tooth cutters off. Then put a sharp edge on the sleeve. I chuck these in a small drill press. On a cold Winter day you can cut enough patches to last all year. In the old days they cut their patches at home and stored them in the patch box. It seems NDNs and bears did not wait while you muzzle cut your cloth.:uhoh: When I get range time I like to shoot with as little work as possible.:):thumbup:
 
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