Need info on old Colt

[C5rider]

Hi guys,

You've always been forthcoming with great information and I'm hoping that you can help me decipher what I've got here.

I stopped by a friend's shop today and saw this ol' Colt sitting in the case. There's not much bluing left and it has a few pits, but I thought it was pretty cool and the price was right for me to take a chance on it.

Here's what I know:
It's an 1892 with a 6-inch bbl.
Grips look to be original
Serial number is a four-digit
It has U.S.N stamped on the butt
SN matches on the crane and the butt of the gun (again, four digits)
It has some wear as the cylinder is kinda sloppy (I think that's why he sold it cheap).

What I would like to know:

The barrel says Colt D.A. 38
Would it be worth it to invest in some parts to tighten it up?
Is it okay to shoot?
I reload, so could I shoot mouse-fart 38 spl. rounds through it?
According to Proofhouse, it appears that I've got a first-year of manufacture gun. (Does that make a difference?)
I've heard that these guns are very sensitive. (Is that true?)

Thanks for any and all info that you might be able to shed on this new acquisition.

Here's some pix.

 

[MikeJackmin]

My opinion is that it is seldom worthwhile to get a gun like that back into firing condition. There are lots of lovely old colts out there with timing problems, and very, very few people capable of fixing them correctly. It's expensive and frustrating.

That said, it's a cool old gun with lots of history. Not every gun has to be shot, to be enjoyed.

 

[C5rider]

Not every gun has to be shot, to be enjoyed.

I hear what you're saying Mike. And this one might become one of those types of guns. But on the other hand, I can't stand to keep a die-cast car in the box, so if it's got a hope, I'll shoot it. I just want to make sure I do it safely.

Here's a few more photos.

 

[Jim K]

I hope you didn't mortgage the farm. The USN marking is spurious. The butt looks like the original markings were removed and a fake serial number and USN marking put on. (Look at the way the grips overhang the butt where the metal has been removed from the butt.) The numbers on the parts are assembly numbers; they don't match the butt serial number. But if the butt number was removed, then someone stamped a serial number using the assembly number, something that is fairly common. There is a legal issue here, because tampering with the serial number is a federal crime, but I can't see anyone caring much.

Better pictures might let us determine the exact model and possibly whether it was made under military contract or is a civilian model.

Jim

 

[Jim Watson]

A real Navy model would have walnut grips. Hard rubber was largely on commercial guns although Flayderman mentions an Army rubber grip with date in the horsie area.

A military contract gun would have an inspector's stamp.

 

[savit260]

38 DA would be 38 Colt... not 38 Special.

 

[C5rider]

A military contract gun would have an inspector's stamp.

Better pictures might let us determine the exact model and possibly whether it was made under military contract or is a civilian model.

What exactly would I be looking for?

Interesting twist, and no, I didn't mortgage the farm for it.

 

[Jim K]

Those are actually civilian "Army model" grips, probably dating from 1894 or later (if they are not repros). There were some Navy guns with hard rubber grips, but those aren't them. I ignored the grips, thinking it might be more interesting to try and actually date the gun.

All in all, the gun is a rather crude attempt to fake an 1889 model Navy revolver, with the serial number changed to bring it down into the first 5000. FWIW, they cost the Navy $12 each. By the next Navy contract, Colt was well beyond four digit numbers.

Later, those Model 1889's were upgraded to the 1892 specs with the new cylinder lock and the double cylinder notches. (The original 1889 had no cylinder notches; the hand operated to lock the cylinder for firing, like the Model 1878.)

Jim

 

[C5rider]

Here are some photos of the inside of the cylinder and the top of the barrel.

Any more info is greatly appreciated. Would be nice to know exactly what I've got.

thanks!

 

[.22-5-40]

Hello, c5rider. Savit260 is right..it's chambered in .38 long-colt. I would not fire even light .38 Spec. loads. The groove dia. of these .38 colts are oversized..an unfired .38 Spec. bullet will fall right thru. A hollow base bullet is needed to obturate & seal bore when fired. A .38 hollow-base wadcutter will work with light charges of smokeless.

 

[C5rider]

Been doing some research on this gun and if I'm understanding correctly, the cylinder bores should be the same diameter completely through the cylinder. These are not. They have a shoulder out toward the barrel.

I included a photo of the number under the extractor, which does not match the four-digit number that is shown everywhere else. Could that mean that this gun was "assembled" out of different parts (or at least a different cylinder)? Would that at least make the cylinder 38spl compatible? I realise that the barrel is still oversized for the 38spl round.

As I've said before, I appreciate any and all info. Even if it is a hack-job pistol, I think I could still use it for practice of tearing apart an ol' Colt and get my money out of it.

The main thing that concerns me would be if the #s have been jobbled as JimK mentioned. If that's the case, it might be best for me to head back to the LGS and explain the situation?

Waiting to see what you all say. Thanks again.

 

[savit260]

.38 Long Colt has a .357 bore. Same as .38 Special, but don't fire a 38 Special round out of it, even if it fits in the cylinder.

.38 LC is the parent cartridge of the .38 Special wich is essentialy a longer and hotter version of the .38 LC.

 

[savit260]

I can't say for certain if this is a model 1889 or 1892 or newer version but given the backwards cylinder rotation , it was made before 1908.

Check in with the guys on the Colt forum. They will get you all dialed in as to what exactly it is.

 

[dfariswheel]

What you have is a butchered up Colt New Army & Navy model revolver.

In 1889 Colt invented the world's first double action, swing-out cylinder revolver.
This was the Colt New Navy Model 1889.
In 1892 the US Army bought it too, and these became known as the Colt New Army & Navy.
They were made from 1889 to 1907.

Colt put the design through a rapid series of improvements, and each version got a new Model year.
These were the Models 1889, 1892, 1894, 1895, 1896, 1901, and 1903.
Production ended in 1907.

Colt made these as both US military issue and as commercial models.
The military models will be marked on the butt with US Army or US Navy stamps and the serial number.
The commercial models will have only the serial number on the butt.

The military versions had smooth walnut grips, blued finish, 6" barrels, and were chambered in .38 Colt Long.
It was this revolver and cartridge that failed in the Moro uprising in the Philippines and led to the adoption of the 1911 .45 automatic.

The commercial models were chambered in .38 Colt Long, .41 Colt Long, very late in production a few in 32-20 and in .38 Special.
Commercial barrels were 3", 4 1/2", and 6", in bright blue or nickel finish.
Commercial grips were made of hard black rubber with molded in checkering and Colt logos.

On all models, the serial number is on the butt, usually in two lines.
Other parts will have two or three digit stamps. These are factory assembly numbers used to keep fitted parts together during manufacture until an official serial number was assigned and stamped. These numbers have no meaning once the serial number was stamped.
If the assembly numbers don't match, parts have been replaced.

These guns are extremely complicated and have weak actions that break or get out of order easily.
There are no new parts available, and what few used parts that are available are usually unusable since each part was hand stoned to fit and function. Since the parts have been altered to fit a different gun, they're usually under-sized and unusable.
Almost no gunsmith will even attempt repairs, so when they're broken, that's usually it.

Value on this one is very low and the number on the butt is not the original serial number.