Army Colt 1909

[PS229]

My father has a Army Colt 1909, and I wanted to possibly find out a value. There are some stampings that I have figured out as to the meaning and some not. If anyone knows of a site that would be recommend It would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

Colt D.A. 45
RAG ( inspector)
K inside of crane hinge
F.B. top right side cylinder release
cylinder length 1 3/8" won't accept half moon clips
serial #42357 frame, cylinder, butt, under hammer and crane.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I'd put it in the $2,000 to $2,500 range.

 

[Jim K]

The Model 1909 is a Colt New Service. The story is interesting. In 1908-09, Army Ordnance became concerned with the seemingly endless testing involved in selecting an automatic pistol and decided to buy a new revolver to replace the old .38 revolver that had failed so famously in the Philippines. So they decided to simply buy some 18,000 of the New Service, have Colt put Army markings on the butt along with the serial number (which at that time Colt was putting on the crane and on the frame under the crane), install plain wood grips and give the Army what it wanted. The Navy and Marine Corps later purchased Model 1909's with their own markings, 1000 by the Navy, 1300 by the USMC.

The Model 1909 is considered an interim gun, and it was superseded by the Model 1911 pistol after only two years. But in fact, no one knew, in 1909, when the pistol would be adopted, and the 1909 was fully intended for the long haul if necessary. Colt chambered the guns for .45 Colt. After Army testing, it was found that the small rim of the .45 Colt allowed the rims to jump the extractor, hanging up the gun. The result was that the Army had its own ammunition made at Frankford Arsenal, with larger rims. That ammunition is the Cartridge, Revolver, Caliber .45, Ball, Model 1909; it was the only cartridge issued with the Model 1909 revolver. The old .45 Army cartridge could be fired in the Model 1909 but was long obsolete; so could the .45 Colt, but the Army had not issued that cartridge for 35 years.

R.A.C. (not G) stands for Rinaldo A. Carr, a Springfield Armory civilian sub-inspector, assigned to Colt. F. B. is Major Frank Baker, the Army inspector at Colt. Later guns have W.G.P. for Maj. Walter G. Penfield, who replaced Baker.

The Model 1909 was never made to accept half-moon clips, since it was never used with the .45 ACP cartridge, only with the Model 1909 cartridge.

The military guns were made with the standard Colt high polish blue finish of the day; they did not originally have a dull finish, though some were refinished in the WWI era with a dull blue. They were issued through WWI to troops in the U.S. AFAIK, none were sent overseas due to the ammunition difference.

Value, in that condition (if it is original - the pictures are not good enough to be sure) could run over $2000 for the Army model, $1000 more for the Navy or USMC model. If reblued, those figures will be reduced by almost half.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

You'll find that it's chambered in .45 (Long) Colt, not .45 ACP. They were purchased by the Army (and later the Navy and Marines) for an exclusive mission and with the exception of a few hundred were delivered to a single destination, directly from the Colt factory to it.

The Army, Navy, Marine Corps number is stamped on the butt. The Colt serial number is stamped on the frame, under the barrel, and you have to swing out the cylinder to see it.

At the Frankfort Armory the Army made ammunition exclusively for the model 1909 for a special reason.

And the whole thing came about becuse of an Army Capt., who in a single day was promoted to the rank of B. General.

When I hae more time I'll come back with more of the story. In the meantime you can reflect that you have a very interesting revolver. Don't let it get away...

 

[Jim K]

Hi, OF,

Some interesting stuff there, but (unlike the Colt Model 1917) the Army serial number on the butt is the Colt serial number and matches the one on the frame and crane. The numbers are not consecutive since civilian production continued in that period. The Navy and USMC had their own numbers put on (1-1000 for the Navy, 1-1300 for the Marines) and they were consecutive, but did not match the Colt serial number.

Almost all the Army Model 1909s were shipped directly to Manila except for 350 shipped to Springfield.

Jim

 

[9mmfan]

I gotta say I'm usually a Smith & Wesson guy, but that is a very cool piece.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Have to say the bluing looks 'right', might indeed be original finish.

Shouldn't it have a lanyard swivel?

 

[PS229]

Army 1909

Yes it has a lanyard swivel, it seems to be original finish. there is some holster wear, and light pitting at the end of the barrel. It also was in manilla according to the man who gave it to my father.

Thanks to all who helped.

 

[40-82]

I really like this thread. The 1909 New Service is one of my favorites. As I remember when the Army did the testing that lead to the adaptation of the 1911, the New Service was tested for comparison. The New Service was fired 6,000 times with only two failures, which resulted from cartridges with no powder, and no fault of the revolver.

 

[Jaymo]

^ No, no. Don't you know that Colt revolvers are "fragile" and complicated and inferior to Smiths?

The New Service is one of my favorites, along with most Colt DA revolvers.
I like Smiths, too. I just prefer Colts.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

One of my favorites is my .45 New Service, made in 1906. Nowadays I shoot it with fairly mild loads, but for hunting I like a 255 grain Lee Wide Flat Top loaded ahead of 12.5 grains of HS-6 for better than 1000 fps.

 

[Jim K]

One point about which much has been made is that due to the larger rim, only three Model 1909 cartridges can be loaded into a Single Action Army. This seems to concern gun hobbyists a lot. It didn't concern the Army, though; by 1909 the SAA had been officially out of service for over a decade and there was .45 Army ammunition available for any Army or NG units still clinging their old thumb busters.

Jim