Need Saiga 308 disassembly (trigger) info!

[Col. Plink]

Hey y'all, I could really use directions to, or to the information to, disassemble a Saiga 308 all the way through the trigger group. THANKS! I am really surprised at how hard this is to find; most folks too caught-up in the extreme detail of conversions I guess...

(Please don't direct me to Saiga12.com or another page somewhere if it doesn't have specific directions on full disassembly of the Saiga 308. Thanks in advance!)

 

[WardenWolf]

If you're planning a full conversion (this assumes you've already removed the rear stock by removing the 3 bolts and rocking it loose with a screwdriver, and the front grip by removing the 1 screw, whacking the foregirip on the bottom just forward of the receiver, and forcefully sliding it forwards):

You drill out the shoulder on the rear pins then punch them out, first and foremost. Then you manipulate the shepherd's crook spring to release the forward (standard AK) trigger pins and push them out as well. Then rotate the safety up and pull it out of the gun. Not that hard. Finish taking the remaining now-loose parts out of the receiver, and go on to the next stage.

Next you grind the rear rivet on the trigger plate smooth and then drill it out. Then you drill through the spot weld at the front of the trigger guard. Pry the trigger guard off. Then pry off the "Clinton plate" (trigger plate) with the screwdriver. You'll be left with a standard AK receiver that's ready to accept a pistol grip and standard trigger group.

Here's how my Saiga .223 came out after 5 hours in the garage:

 

[Col. Plink]

thanks, Mike. not doing a full conversion (I hope)

I believe all I need to do is replace the trigger. I have a Tapco G2 kit and don't think I have to do the hammer (though I could be wrong).

So what I need most is just disassembly instructions: I have the cover off and the bolt and gas rod taken out. Trigger group disassembly doesn't seem as apparent as the rest was when I look at it...

 

[WardenWolf]

You need to replace your hammer as well. I asked about that. Something about "ATF-attracting rates of fire" if you don't replace all the parts. Can we say "Illegal machine gun"?

 

[nalioth]

You can always go to the bible. .

Romanian Kalashnikov Rifles

Yeah, it says Romanian, but the info works on all AKs.

 

[WardenWolf]

This guy posted an excellent pictorial guide for a Saiga .223 conversion. These instructions apply to ALL Saiga rifles: http://www.stu-offroad.com/firearms/saiga/saiga-1.htm


By the way, the Tapco G2 needs to be specially modified for the Saiga .308. The stock one will not work. It needs to have some material relieved from the hammer for proper clearance. Dinzag Arms sells modified Tapco trigger groups, and you can probably send yours to him for modification as well. Shoot him an email and ask him.

 

[Col. Plink]

Thanks again. I thought I had figured out everything about my trigger swap, but I guess not.

I'll try Dinzag.

 

[WardenWolf]

You won't be disappointed. Dinzag's a great guy, and does great work. I've done business with him several times, and have always been pleased.

 

[rangerruck]

correct , from the above dude; things are moved a bit backward/and forward, to make room for the extra recoil lenght of the 308 parts, so there is a part of two modified.

 

[TonyRumore]

That's the wrong information posted above. The Saiga 308-1 is different than all the others and does not have the linkage that requires the two extra axis pin holes.

Pull the hammer pin first by pressing downward on the retaining spring with a screw driver while you tap the pin out from the right hand side. This takes three hands. After the hammer is out, you should be able to get the trigger pin out and pull the trigger and bolt hold open lever out as well.

If you are just pulling the fire control group out for the fun of it, for something to do......pass on that. It's a big pain in the ass. Do something else for fun.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp

 

[WardenWolf]

Yes, there is that one .308 variant out there that comes with a thumbhole stock and standard trigger group. If yours has a thumbhole stock, you can just replace the stock and drop a pistol grip in, once you satisfy 922(r) compliance. My instructions are for standard Saiga .308's.

 

[Col. Plink]

I have a Saiga 308 ver.21 and haven taken a look at that tutorial, it seems as if the 308 v21 is different.

Most notably, the shoulders of the retaining pins are exposed (you can turn them a little with the heads). They look as if the could be driven out easily from the left side (which are not shouldered) with a punch and some light taps, but they don't move. I don't want to break anything...

Mine does not have 2 separate pins for the trigger and sear&hammer. It has one pin for trigger and sear; the hammer is on another pin (whick I don't want to replace if I don't have to).

Wondering most at this point: is there a reason why I can't drift the one pin for the trigger & sear out?

(Will read intermediate posts again too...)

Right! Got the thumbhole stock so I don't want to do that; want to replace the trigger. Now to find directions specific to the ver 21:

Tony, I'm actually trying to find the fastest way to conversion compliance and was told trigger replacement was the easiest. Not so?

Can't just replace a gas rod as I understand it...

 

[Col. Plink]

Updated info/questions above.

 

[mshootnit]

OK, not real familiar with the Ver 21, however I think I can help, if you still need it. The pins are held by a small curved wire called the shepherds hook. It will lay flat along the receiver and sits in the grooves in the heads of the pins. You would need to take a tool and pull out that wire by moving it to the rear.
1. Remove the dust cover (receiver top) Make sure you are empty
2. remove the guide rod, bolt carrier/piston, bolt assembly from the rifle
3. Rotate the safety up and around until you can wiggle it out of the receiver.
4. Locate the retaining spring along the inside wall of the receiver holding the pins in and remove it (if you have a retaining plate instead of the shepherd hook it would have had the safety running through it, just pull it to the rear and remove it.
5. Drift your pins out toward the large (head) side of the pin.
As you do this your trigger parts will begin to fall out. Proly want to hold the hammer with one hand and pull the trigger to let the hammer down first.
If you have a bolt hold open device and spring, this will come out too as you take the pins out and is a pain to put back in. There are several tutorials on it and one is on you tube.

 

[nalioth]

Col. Plink, if you visit the "Romanian Kalashnikov Rifles" link I posted, a lot of your questions will be answered.

(All AKs tear down the same [even Saigas])

 

[Col. Plink]

Mshootnit, I think you've got us very near the point. Where I am in the takedown is that it appears the trigger group needs to come out before I can take the safety lever out.

Safety lever does not easily extend past normal 'safe' position, is blocked by part of the trigger assembly. Unless the safety lever is supposed to turn part of the trigger assembly for removal, it looks like trying to take it out would be to force it.

It doesn't sound like the easy safety lever removal for AK's I've heard about, and probably not in the same order of disassembly either. Is there something to watch for in removing the safety lever?

I think as long as we're both talking about the same model we're likely on the same page. Thanks!

 

[Mooseman]

If I remember correctly those pins can't be drifted out because the legs of a spring lay in a groove in those pins. You take a pair of needle nose pliers and move those legs out of the way, then the pins can be pushed out. Forgive me if my memory isn't right, I converted mine a good while ago

 

[Col. Plink]

Now we're getting somewhere

We've established that Saiga 308-1's are different from other Saiga's, and that ver.21 might be different even from them.

The safety arm is not designed to come out while the trigger/sear is still in. And I have closely inspected mine to discover that the 'shepherd's hook' I have is actually wound around the axis pin for the trigger/sear three times.

The trick, I fear, will be how to disengage this intricate thing: it does not appear to be designed to be removed any other way than having the pin slid out from it. I wish I knew for sure.

But what baffles me is what's keeping these pins from drifting; the only thing that looks to osbtruct them seems to need the pin removed to come out..?

 

[nalioth]

But what baffles me is what's keeping these pins from drifting; the only thing that looks to osbtruct them seems to need the pin removed to come out..?

There is a wire (referenced as the 'shepherds hook') riding in the notches on the ends of those pins.

This "shepherd's hook" is keeping the pins in place.

You've been told this more than once in this thread, and also how to get the pins out w/o ruining the wire.

 

[mshootnit]

alright , the spring wound around the pin several times sounds very much like a bolt hold open spring, and your right it doesn't come out till the pin does. I have run into your problem several times with the safety not wanting to rotate all the way around. In those cases I have been able to move the trigger part enough to get it out of the way somehow. I think you might be able to push down on it (the disconnector) with a screw driver or punch or something. Even if you could not. I think you could still get the shepherds hook loose but would be harder. Peer in there good with a flashlight and look hard at the left side of the receiver (the side with the bigger pin heads) It will be there, unless someone has replaced it with a retaining plate from Tapco or e-clips from the hardware store. Then drive the pins out. The rest will take care of itself.

 

[nalioth]

alright , the spring wound around the pin several times sounds very much like a bolt hold open spring,

The BHO spring will not keep the pins from being removed.

 

[Col. Plink]

OK, here's how mine is configured: 'shepherds hook' is NOT removable by the way I've been twice told, nalioth, and I've already said so. It is wrapped three times around the sear/trigger pin and up against the left side of the receiver.

The BHO spring is behind its plate up against the right side of the receiver; I believe it will come out rather easily.

Now, from what I can tell some of the cryptic instructions from above might come into play: there are arms of the hammer 'spring' (actually a long braided wire wrapped around the hammer pin and extending over the trigger/sear pin and onto parts of that assembly. Perhaps this is what keeps the pins in place, but if so why is the 'shepherds hook' in there at all?

 

[nalioth]

OK, here's how mine is configured: 'shepherds hook' is NOT removable by the way I've been twice told, nalioth, and I've already said so. It is wrapped three times around the sear/trigger pin and up against the left side of the receiver.

The BHO spring is behind its plate up against the right side of the receiver; I believe it will come out rather easily.

Now, from what I can tell some of the ceyptic instructions from above might come into play: there are arms of the hammer 'spring' (actually a long braided wire wrapped around the hammer pin and extending over the trigger/sear pin and onto parts of that assembly. Perhaps this is what keeps the pins in place, but if so why is the 'shepherds hook' in there at all?

Take your needle nose pliers or a dental hook or something similar, and lift the shepherds hook from the notch in the hammer spring. If the spring is on the bottom side, pressing upwards, push down on it. While the spring is out of it's normal position, remove the hammer axis pin.

At this point, there should be no pressure on the spring at the trigger axis pin, and it should be able to be removed. You can then remove the trigger axis pin.

 

[Col. Plink]

I think you're right nalioth, but man am I sorry to hear it.

I have no material need to replace the hammer or hastle its configuration in any way if I can avoid it...

However if removing the hammer pin/assembly is the only way to get the pressure off the trigger group pin, I'm prepared to do that (I'm sorry to say). I'm hoping to get confirmation or, what are the odds, some more contridictory information?

But seriously folks, I'm hoping to change the trigger with the least invasive damage to the patient, that's all. It's proven a worthy pursuit for the resources of this board so far, I'm willing to see what we can come up with.

Interesting to note I could have shortened the inquiry by giving the exact model type at the beginning; sorry, mates! File it away in 'miscelaneous' if we get it figured out

 

[Col. Plink]

So can anyone verify the above information? thanks!