ForumSurfer
Member
I wish I had kept my gen 4 17 so I could have done just that. I have to admit, it would be fun to try one with a scope mounted and an extended lonewolf barrel for reloads.
Need some advice on different .45's
- Thread starter Carter
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I wish I had kept my gen 4 17 so I could have done just that. I have to admit, it would be fun to try one with a scope mounted and an extended lonewolf barrel for reloads.
Carter
Member
Why'd you sell it?
ForumSurfer
Member
I thought I'd like a 19 better. After living with it, the difference is minimal. The gen4 17 got rid of that awkward hump on the back, the difference was minimal...but it was enough for me to buy one for the first time. I wish I would have at least waited for the gen4 19 before trading out.
Sig 220 is hard to beat for accuracy, reliability and just pure toughness, even if it's in that sissy skin 
.
Just kidding that same gun is next on my wish list.
Once you get used to that DA/SA trigger and the manual of arms on the Sig, they are really excellent guns.
I've got a couple of 1911's, but the Sigs soared passed them once I started shooting them.
Good luck with your choice!
. Just kidding that same gun is next on my wish list.
Once you get used to that DA/SA trigger and the manual of arms on the Sig, they are really excellent guns.
I've got a couple of 1911's, but the Sigs soared passed them once I started shooting them.
Good luck with your choice!
I can't speak for the P220, or the CZ you were looking at, but i have the 9mm counterparts to both, the CZ is a great gun that functions well, and i have a police trade in of a west german P226, between the two, I like my sig more, but the CZ is probibly the better gun, so i would vote for the CZ is it was there.
engineer88
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- Feb 2, 2009
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- 147
I chose glock21 just because it will last forever and there are tons of trigger configs you can drop ij yourself and for about ten bucks. My second choice would definitely be the springfielf.
Carter
Member
Seems to be that no matter what I choose I'll be happy.
Guess it'll come down to price and availability when I finish getting my funds for the purchase.
Guess it'll come down to price and availability when I finish getting my funds for the purchase.
SwampWolf
Member
Though I've never owned a CZ 97, much less ever shot one, I've heard many times that the 97 can be very temperamental feeding anything but hardball. To those who are acquainted with this pistol, I'm asking if there's any truth to these "rumors"? I like the feel and handling qualities of the 97 and would consider buying one but I have no use for a pistol that has a finicky appetite when it comes to digesting a diverse menu of ammunition.
Dulvarian
Member
Warning, massive wall of text:
I have both a Cougar 8045 and a G21. I shoot both fine, and between the two, I have about 20,000 rounds through them. I have never had a ftf, fte, light strike, anything, on either one. I keep them in good condition though. They shoot everything I have put though them, and the accuracy is comparable. I shoot about the same size groups with each at the same distances with the same ammo.
The Cougar has a little bit different feel to the recoil based on the rotating barrel. The recoil doesn't pull as high, but you can feel the rotational force on it, especially shooting +p rounds in it. If the hammer is down, it is a long trigger pull on the first round, after that, it is much crisper and shorter. Biggest downside is the frame width if you get ambi safeties on it (1/4 wider than the Glock). I also had a hard time finding a concealed holster that fit me and the gun. Mine doesn't have a round indicator for the chamber, but you can actually see a tiny bit of daylight through the barrel to the left side of the hammer if there isn't a round chambered. Very noticeable in daylight when you come up to target. Hammer also has a halfcock safety, and decocks.
The Glock is narrower at 1&1/8" but is 1/2" longer. Weight wise, fully loaded, it weighs about the same as the Cougar but is 13 rounds vs. 8. That is picking up both guns and feeling for a difference, I didn't put them on a scale or anything. That is also with the light on the Glock. I did get a ruler out and measured the slide widths just now
Both have nice sized grips if you have average sized hands. I hold in something that I can only describe as a Weaver or Modified Weaver grip and I get good engagement of both hands. My wife thinks they are both a bit large, but she has no problems shooting either. She prefers the Beretta, and even though she doesn't shoot as often as she should, she shoots about a 4-5" group at 7 yards with both. Before surgery, I was shooting about 2" groups at 7 yards. Some better, some worse. Even after several hundred rounds, I have never noticed a significant change in point of impact with either gun out to 25 yards. (That's the farthest I normally practice with handguns at. I have made 100 yard shots with the Glock for giggles. Best shot was 1" off bullseye on a full sized silhouette. Lol, and yes, I had a witness. He was using a spotting scope for me.) Most of my friends that have shot them found them easy to shoot and put pretty good groups down. Except the guy that was spotting for me above... he can't shoot handguns worth a darn, he pulls something terrible, and I never could break him of it.
I like the fact that the G21sf has the lower rail mount. I keep a 300 lumen switch activated light on it, and that's the one that sleeps by the bed. I did not like the difficulty of trying to swap out the rear sights on the Beretta. Without a press, I don't think you can do it. I bent two brass rods trying to get mine out to put a Burris Fastfire on it. I gave up. (If you check the advertisement pictures for the Fastfire II, it shows a Cougar 8045 (you can even read the model number on the slide in the picture)). Both will fire without a magazine. Both are easy to field strip and clean. However, the rotational action on the Beretta has more wear points and I think in the long run, that will limit the life of the gun before I have to start looking to replace parts, though I think I am good distance away from that. Oh, and the lower rear corners of the slide on the Beretta are VERY sharp points. I actually cut the web between my thumb and index finger once while pulling the slide back to field strip it. Even with about 4,000 ish more rounds through the Glock, there is less wear on the barrel.
I don't have experience with the other three, but I have a lot of experience with those two. Either one should do well if you chose to go with them. I have been quite pleased overall with both. I'm assuming that even if you are looking at a Stoeger Cougar, it should be made off the same molds as the Beretta, and I would assume (yeah, yeah, I know, you and me) that they perform similarly.
Hope that helps. And if not... NC isn't that far. Maybe we could meet up one day and you can try em both, though the odds of that are probably pretty low.
I have both a Cougar 8045 and a G21. I shoot both fine, and between the two, I have about 20,000 rounds through them. I have never had a ftf, fte, light strike, anything, on either one. I keep them in good condition though. They shoot everything I have put though them, and the accuracy is comparable. I shoot about the same size groups with each at the same distances with the same ammo.
The Cougar has a little bit different feel to the recoil based on the rotating barrel. The recoil doesn't pull as high, but you can feel the rotational force on it, especially shooting +p rounds in it. If the hammer is down, it is a long trigger pull on the first round, after that, it is much crisper and shorter. Biggest downside is the frame width if you get ambi safeties on it (1/4 wider than the Glock). I also had a hard time finding a concealed holster that fit me and the gun. Mine doesn't have a round indicator for the chamber, but you can actually see a tiny bit of daylight through the barrel to the left side of the hammer if there isn't a round chambered. Very noticeable in daylight when you come up to target. Hammer also has a halfcock safety, and decocks.
The Glock is narrower at 1&1/8" but is 1/2" longer. Weight wise, fully loaded, it weighs about the same as the Cougar but is 13 rounds vs. 8. That is picking up both guns and feeling for a difference, I didn't put them on a scale or anything. That is also with the light on the Glock. I did get a ruler out and measured the slide widths just now
Both have nice sized grips if you have average sized hands. I hold in something that I can only describe as a Weaver or Modified Weaver grip and I get good engagement of both hands. My wife thinks they are both a bit large, but she has no problems shooting either. She prefers the Beretta, and even though she doesn't shoot as often as she should, she shoots about a 4-5" group at 7 yards with both. Before surgery, I was shooting about 2" groups at 7 yards. Some better, some worse. Even after several hundred rounds, I have never noticed a significant change in point of impact with either gun out to 25 yards. (That's the farthest I normally practice with handguns at. I have made 100 yard shots with the Glock for giggles. Best shot was 1" off bullseye on a full sized silhouette. Lol, and yes, I had a witness. He was using a spotting scope for me.) Most of my friends that have shot them found them easy to shoot and put pretty good groups down. Except the guy that was spotting for me above... he can't shoot handguns worth a darn, he pulls something terrible, and I never could break him of it.
I like the fact that the G21sf has the lower rail mount. I keep a 300 lumen switch activated light on it, and that's the one that sleeps by the bed. I did not like the difficulty of trying to swap out the rear sights on the Beretta. Without a press, I don't think you can do it. I bent two brass rods trying to get mine out to put a Burris Fastfire on it. I gave up. (If you check the advertisement pictures for the Fastfire II, it shows a Cougar 8045 (you can even read the model number on the slide in the picture)). Both will fire without a magazine. Both are easy to field strip and clean. However, the rotational action on the Beretta has more wear points and I think in the long run, that will limit the life of the gun before I have to start looking to replace parts, though I think I am good distance away from that. Oh, and the lower rear corners of the slide on the Beretta are VERY sharp points. I actually cut the web between my thumb and index finger once while pulling the slide back to field strip it. Even with about 4,000 ish more rounds through the Glock, there is less wear on the barrel.
I don't have experience with the other three, but I have a lot of experience with those two. Either one should do well if you chose to go with them. I have been quite pleased overall with both. I'm assuming that even if you are looking at a Stoeger Cougar, it should be made off the same molds as the Beretta, and I would assume (yeah, yeah, I know, you and me) that they perform similarly.
Hope that helps. And if not... NC isn't that far. Maybe we could meet up one day and you can try em both, though the odds of that are probably pretty low.
Last edited:
Carter
Member
Thanks Dulvarian. I think I've pretty much decided on the glock 21sf. When it comes to form over function I'll take function every time. I read recently somebody saying Gaston Glock wasn't a gun guy, but an engineer yadda yadda. That may be true, but he invented one of the greatest handguns ever designed, and he did it cheap.
I really appreciate the offer to shoot your handguns, but as you said that is a low probability. Sadly, I can barely even make it out to the ranges around here any more.
Maybe someday soon there will be a lone wolf frame for the glock 21 that I can play with to customize the form part of the glock.
I really appreciate the offer to shoot your handguns, but as you said that is a low probability. Sadly, I can barely even make it out to the ranges around here any more.
Maybe someday soon there will be a lone wolf frame for the glock 21 that I can play with to customize the form part of the glock.
Dulvarian
Member
It's only a low probability because I don't know where in NC you are. I'm in Charleston, SC.
I have in my custody a 1911 that was surrendered into my custody and I would like to return it to the kids father, who I think lives in NC. You can PM me contact info, and I might be able to work in a two-fer in the next few weeks.
And before anyone freaks out, I didn't seize the gun. I'm a military instructor, the kid said he was thinking about hurting himself and he turned the gun over to me. I told him to get in touch with me before he left so I could work out the details, but he failed to contact me. His contact info was on a yellow stickie of awesomeness until my wife ran my uniform through the wash with it in the pocket.
I have in my custody a 1911 that was surrendered into my custody and I would like to return it to the kids father, who I think lives in NC. You can PM me contact info, and I might be able to work in a two-fer in the next few weeks.
And before anyone freaks out, I didn't seize the gun. I'm a military instructor, the kid said he was thinking about hurting himself and he turned the gun over to me. I told him to get in touch with me before he left so I could work out the details, but he failed to contact me. His contact info was on a yellow stickie of awesomeness until my wife ran my uniform through the wash with it in the pocket.
davidbee
Member
I would say out of the choices you have Mil-Spec 1911.
Mr.Revolverguy
Member
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2007
- Messages
- 1,882
Walkalong and Schmecky has it right, they have discovered what I say is one of the best 45's on the market. Though I like and own Sig's I can't buy a Sig 220 knowing how well the CZ97 is built. For those asking, I have fed my CZ97 Lead and plated 200gr SWC's also without a hiccup.
Here is a review I wrote of mine I really love it, as it is my favorite 45. Even though it is my favorite 45 I did not give it a perfect rating which was very hard. But I have to stay committed to the user and the reader in providing a non-biased report.
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=323
Another review using the CZ97 to test accuracy of my reloads
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=861
Here is a review I wrote of mine I really love it, as it is my favorite 45. Even though it is my favorite 45 I did not give it a perfect rating which was very hard. But I have to stay committed to the user and the reader in providing a non-biased report.
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=323
Another review using the CZ97 to test accuracy of my reloads
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=861
harmon rabb
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- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 2,699
I own a xd45 and a couple 1911's, but man, i really loved the p220 i fired.
bannockburn
Member
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- Apr 24, 2007
- Messages
- 26,308
Tough choice to be sure. For me, the Glock 21 just feels too bulky and awkward in my hand (I feel the same way about the XD as well). The SIG P220 is a great pistol, even though I'm not especially fond of the DA/SA mode of operation. The Beretta Cougar is another fine pistol, and the rotating barrel design is an interesting feature to have with it. The FNP would get my vote among the polymer framed guns; very ergonomic and feels good in my hand even with having 15 rounds in the mag. Since the S.A. M1911 is the only traditional single action .45 to pick from, I would go with that, though by way of personal preference, I probably would spend the extra money on a new Colt Series 70Government if available.
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