Need some advice on two old S&W revolvers please

[Zaydok Allen]

Hello friends and neighbors,

Say, I recently thought it might be kind of fun to invest a little money in some older guns as collector’s pieces, and as a small financial investment. I mentioned this to a friend and he said he had an older friend that lives several states away that has a few older guns he is looking to get rid of. My friend opened up some of the pictures on his PC and showed me, and I realized I need a little help.

The first model is a S&W 1-1/2 nickeled single action in 32 S&W The gun is all original, lockup is supposedly quite tight, the grips are in great shape, the bore and rifling look pretty clean and sharp, and the gun looks to retain 95%+ of its original finish. The finish is a bit worn and scratched here and there, but it is in tact. If I had to guess, it looks like it was maybe carried a lot in a gentlemen’s coat or vest, but shot very little. That is a guess of course. From the poor pictures, it looks as if there is a bit of discoloration, but pretty much no rust, which I thought was pretty darn cool. The seller says it rates out as an NRA excellent gun. He wants $475 for it, so with transfer fees, I could have it for $500. It seems like a good deal to me based on the pictures and internet research I did, but I really don’t know. Thoughts?

The second model is a S&W Model 4 “Lemon Squeezer” in 32 S&W. It is also nickeled and has about 90% of its original finish but again, it is worn. Again, lockup is tight and the gun works fine. Apparently he has shot this one a few times. The grips are original as well. He is only asking $300 for it, but I know these guns are fairly common.

I guess the serial numbers are all matching on frames and other parts with both gun, they are all original, with the original finishes. Sorry though, I do not have any pics, serial numbers, or manufacture dates. This one is a top break, so it is in the third issue run of the 1-1/2 models.

I know it isn’t a lot to go on, but any input would be appreciated as this is my first venture into collector guns. All the pictures are on my buddy's PC so I can't access them and he can't get to them remotely either, and he is out of town for awhile. I really like the look of both, but I am really unsure if these prices are a bit high. I also realize they probably won’t go up in value much, but who knows what will happen in another 50 years.

Thanks all

 

[WC145]

I don't have a ton of experience with those early S&Ws but that sounds like about all the money they're worth and neither is particularly collectible. Personally I wouldn't be considering them for investment purposes. Rare, but popular, sought after guns are the way to go but good deals are hard to find. A good rule of thumb is that if you buy something today that you could resell today at a profit then chances are it will retain it's value down the road. Also, watch market trends, for instance, S&W M28 Highway Patrolman revolvers used to be plentiful and inexpensive but recently the prices have been going up, especially for 4" guns in excellent or NIB condition. M28s that could be had for a song a year or two or three ago are now selling in the $600-$800 range. Also, you want to look for pre-lock S&Ws, the IL guns don't hold their value anywhere near as well, even models with low production numbers.

 

[Radagast]

Get the Standard Catalog of S&W by Supica & Nahas.
Join www.smith-wessonforum.com
Join the S&W collectors association if you want to put money into that brand.
Go for New in Box or guns with original documentation.
Stick to early N frames as these keep going up in value.
Over time your investment may maintain value or even exceed inflation.
The small, high production guns not so much.

 

[silicosys4]

neither of those guns is particularly collectible, and both are overpriced, imo.
I would pass. I see those guns at auction all the time for less than $200 each, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

So it's sounding like it's not a great investment, monitary wise. The only real value is more of me wanting them in my collection as history pieces than anything.

The question is do I want them enough to spend the money.

 

[bannockburn]

460Kodiak

Have to agree with the others in that neither gun is particularly rare or highly sought after. Also both seem to be at the top end of their price range, though the Model 4 Lemon Squeezer isn't too pricey. Buy one or both but don't expect any sizable return on your money as a collectible investment. Older Smiths, primarily K and N frames, are the way to go. Condition is very important as is also having the original box and paperwork that came with the gun.

 

[Master Blaster]

Go over to gun broker and search for model 18, or K22 smith & Wesson and look for one with the box and papers. It will hold its value better and if you want you can also shoot it a bit. You can get a nice one for less than the $1000 you were going to spend on two old Clunkers.

 

[Radagast]

True, Model 18s and early K22 Masterpieces seem to be doing well value wise.Probably because they are still in demand as shooters and the internet has educated a new generation of shooters about their utility.

 

[Hondo 60]

First of all, I'd never "invest" in a gun I haven't held & inspected.
Pictures lie all the time, they can be photoshopped too.

If I were looking to buy an investment, it would have to be a safe queen.
One that's never been fired outside of the factory.
That's the only way to as sure as possible that your investment will appreciate.

Having said all that, I don't believe in safe queens.
Guns were made to be fired, repeatedly, and often

 

[rswartsell]

If the second revolver you are considering is a S&W Safety Hammerless 4th change, then you are indeed talking about a revolver that currently goes for bargain bin prices but for the life of me I don't see why.

It is for the era the last word in coat pocket personal defense. The top break, auto ejecting, palm safety concealed hammer lock-work was a marvel of the time. It chambered rounds that today are considered underpowered and not commercially common (.32 and .38S&W, not to be confused with "Specials").

You must remember the purpose it was executed (and very well) for. To this day if I am going to the theater and would like wholly reliable "belly gun" defense to a range of say 15 ft., I can drop my 1892 Safety Hammerless .38 S&W in the overcoat pocket and as long as I don't have to contend with a number of gang bangers wielding Glock Fo-tays, I'm good.

Its classy, high quality (copied as much as almost any revolver pattern in those days long ago) and historically significant. If you are speculating on making money, probably a bad choice. Appreciating the art of the old time revolver craftsmen? A good way to get in the game. Looking for a CCW? Probably best to stay in this century, but in a pinch I could press my fully functional example into service.

Very neat old guns if you ask me.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Nice Hondo… I buy shooters as well. This is my first thought of buying a gun I wouldn't shoot.

I guess as I come to it, owning something nostalgic and a little piece of history is what appeals to me about these guns. I get that they are not guns that will appreciate in value much, if at all. Also very true about photo shop. Friend of a friend makes me think the pics are legit, but I've never met the dude, so who knows. They were a bit blurry.

Rswartsell: I wouldn't carry either. I've got my handgun needs covered and carry either an SP101 or an XDs depending on the day. I have handguns ranging from .22lr up to S&W 460 magnum. So these are more "I'd like to have them in my collection." guns.

 

[Radagast]

On that basis, buy what interests you and fulfills a desire to possess a piece of history. Just don't justify it as an investment per se.

 

[rswartsell]

I don't know the veracity of this quote but it is amusing to share and I have done so on a few occasions. Teddy Roosevelt was reputed to carry a S&W Safety Hammerless during his presidency. Horseless carriages of the day being what they were, he had a driver. This driver is reputed to have given an interview years later that included an anecdote of a morning when TR left the white house and suddenly cried "Turn back! I've forgotten my pistol (the Safety Hammerless), and I'm meeting the Archbishop today!"

 

[Radagast]

He was also shot with a .32 and survived due to it penetrating his speech papers first.

 

[silicosys4]

I have a Merwin & Hulbert pocket .38s&w that I will probably never shoot, those old pocket guns are neat. Those old s&w top breaks are neat guns as well, but there do seem to be a lot of them around, or so it seems since I see them at auction all the time for barely more than their cheaper counterparts like iver Johnson's and such.