Need some caliber advice want a dual purpose deer/varmint rifle

[AzBuckfever]

pat, where in AZ? I'm from AZ as well. Anyway, one thing to think about is what you plan on doing with the pelts of the varmints/predators. I'm also in the same boat as I was looking for a good rifle for predators/back up for deer. One thing I considered is that regardless of .243 or .25-06; you're gonna make a hole. Especially in a lighter game such as bobcats/small coyotes, etc. You could reduce this by shooting a bullet with a higher Ballistic co-efficient/less fragmentation, and heavier to limit it's time for expansion; but as said, still gonna get a hole. I'm going to opt for a 25-06 for 2 reasons. #1; I have an 30-06 right now that I'm going to have rechambered when I get a 300 WSM...#2, 25-06 has damn near, if not better ballistics/trajectory than a 30-06 shooting the same grain.

.243 is a great caliber, but I tend to still think of it as more of a youth gun for hunting deer and such. The benefit of a .243 though is you're much more likely to find ammo for it at any mom&pop store or Wal-Mart in the preference that you desire rather than a 25-06.

I wouldn't trust a .223 on one of our AZ Muleys without a well placed shot

 

[AzBuckfever]

Taken off sniper-hide.....This is with a .243 so yeah, you're gonna get a hole This is a little extreme though, and probably shot with a Ballistic Tip or some rapid expansion round.

 

[bpl]

You kidder you! There's always something to debate. I would suggest the .260 Rem with 100 to 120 grain loads, or the 7-08 Rem with 120 to 140 grain loads as they are more potent round for varmint and deer. Both the .260 and the 7-08 possess better down-range ballistics than the .243 Win, equally mild recoil, and a nice selection of factory loadings. Why just settle with a .243 when one can thrive with the .260 or 7-08?

Just debating...

Geno,

I agree with most everything you said. However, the .260 and 7mm-08 do not fulfill the cheaper ammo criteria, nor do the .257 Roberts or 25-06 for that matter. All of these other cartridges have more recoil than the .243 as well, although I agree its not much more. I love the 7mm-08, bye the way. Its a great deer cartridge for sure and is my preference for deer over the .243. It wouldn't really be my preference for a varmint cartridge though.

FWIW, IME the cheapest deer hunting ammo is usually 30-30, followed closely by .243/.308/.270/30-06, which are usually all about the same price. All the others mentioned are less common and more expensive.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

Take my advice with a grain of salt; I'm a fan of classic calibers. That said, no one here has mentioned 7x57 Mauser.

I have an old Greek model 95 that's been sporterized, and it's a jewel. It's pleasant to shoot, and ammo isn't to bad to find, if you frequent gun shows.

It's even better to reload, especially since you can reload both the 7x57 and 7 mag with the same bullets.

If you want a do-it-all rifle the 7x57 is still hard to beat - even after a 115 years!

KR

 

[joed]

I faced the same question you're dealing with back in September. It came to down to a choice between the 243 and 25-06. What decided it for me was the rifle I wanted (Winchester Featherweight Model 70) was ony available in 243.

Then I would have spit on the Winchester and gone elsewhere!

I've used a .25-06 for more then 30 years. There is nothing like the .25-06, it is truely a multi purpose cartridge. You can load 75 to 87 gr bullets for varmints and 100 to 120 for larger game. The trajectory is very flat and it is ballistically superior to the 6mm cartridges.

The .25 has an even bigger following out west where the ranges are longer.

 

[Retooferab]

I vote 25-06 for most of the reasons already listed. I mostly hunt coyotes and deer. I handload and with my loads I have a point blank sight in to 340 yards, which means the bullet never travels more than 3 inches up or down in the 340 yards. Just put your target in the crosshairs and pull the trigger out to long ranges

 

[mgmorden]

.257 Roberts. Yeah, the ammo costs more, but this likely won't be extremely high volume shooting. .243 will certainly work fine if cost really is a concern, but it's just a smidge weaker than I'd like for deer, while .257 is just perfect.

 

[gspdave45]

Don't like the .243, I consider it a bit too small to be considered a solid big game round and much too large for the purpose of varminting. I'm pretty much in the camp of using the right tool for the right job, this makes my opinion admittedly biased against it.
That said, for the purposes indicated by the OP, there isn't really anything better than the .243, considering off the shelf availability and affordability of ammo. I could make an argument for the .250 Savage, or maybe the 6mm Remington, but the .243 is the choice when all factors are considered.

 

[wankerjake]

Remember INEXPENSIVE TO SHOOT and sufficient for deer.

Sums up the .243 win perfectly in my opinion. Remington 100gr core-lokts is a great bullet for both deer and coyotes, and it's relatively inexpensive. I've killed several mule deer with mine around Flagstaff, man i miss it up there!

 

[jimmyraythomason]

.223 is insufficient on the average deer and a 7.62x39 is absurd for varmint.

now that is spoken like a true magnumite. The .223 is not optimal but not at all inadequate and a 7.62x39 is excellent on deer and varmints. Having said that I like my .257 Roberts but it is expensive to shoot.

 

[mgmorden]

now that is spoken like a true magnumite. The .223 is not optimal but not at all inadequate

No - magnumite's believe that your traditional .30-06's and such are inadequate for deer. They go to the overkill level. .223 is a whole different story - to the point that it's ILLEGAL to use on deer in most states. It happens to be legal in mine, but I certainly wouldn't take my .223 out deer hunting. Those who would are the opposite of those with magnumitis. They try to skate down as low as possible on the power tree and will make many animals suffer a longer and needlessly painful death before they find something that is just barely enough to dispatch one.

If you want something where there's no question but is still light on recoil, look at the mid-level cartridges. .257 Roberts, .250 Savage, .25-06, 6.5x55, 7mm-08, etc.

 

[Leaky Waders]

If you have a 7 mm mag, then the best thing to do would be to buy a basic reloading kit and learn the versatility of that particular round.

Since you don't want to reload, then the cheapest 'varmint' round would be a .22. I mean, you already have a 7mm mag that can kill everything in North America depending on bullet selection.

A do it all for cheap without reloading rifle would be a military caliber so you can purchase surplus ammo. A versatile gun for hunting deer and varmints - albeit close range - would be a shotgun.

I think it boils down to how much you really plan to shoot. You're in college - are you really going to shoot more than 5 boxes of shells per year?

Any deer rifle will kill a varmint, just match the bullet to the game.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

will make many animals suffer a longer and needlessly painful death before they find something that is just barely enough to dispatch one.

A poor shot can do that with ANY caliber.

 

[Al LaVodka]

now that is spoken like a true magnumite. The .223 is not optimal but not at all inadequate and a 7.62x39 is excellent on deer and varmints.

The "magnum" BS was already responded too for me (I was among the first to recommend the .243 BTW), and 7.62x39 is not a varmint cartridge by any stretch of anyone's imagination except maybe some cheap ComBlock-under-any-and-all-circumstances defender, and they're SO wrong (usually).
Al

 

[jimmyraythomason]

7.62x39 is not a varmint cartridge by any stretch of anyone's imagination except maybe some cheap ComBlock-under-any-and-all-circumstances defender, and they're SO wrong (usually).

You really don't have one and have never shot one,have you?

 

[Al LaVodka]

You really don't have one and have never shot one,have you?

Apparently you have nothing but. I, on the other hand, have many as well as many other calibers that I actually shoot, Jimmy my boy, including a longer heavy-barrel bipoded target 7.62x39. Unless one is reloading quality brass and feeding a fairly specialized rifle there isn't even a point putting a scope on a 7.62x39 IMO. And at that point, just get a quality .30-30, which I ALSO wouldn't recommend for a Varmint rifle.

We know the "Jimmy-Rays" of the forum(s): now you are supposed to come back and tell us that the Mosin Nagant is actually the best deer and everything-else rifle and that the Tokarev, no, a MAKAROV, which you'll insist is a design not stolen by the Russians also, has to be carried for a coup de grace...



Al

 

[jimmyraythomason]

Now you are supposed to come back and tell us that the Mosin is the best deer rifle, and the Tokarev and Makarov should be carried for a coup-de-grace...

Actually I've never owned a Mosin(I don't like them) I do like the Makarov but I never used one for a coup-de-grace. I have had to use a second shot though with my 7mm-08.

 

[Kernel]

For way less than the cost of a new rifle, scope, base, & rings you could buy a basic reloading kit. Learn to DOWNLOAD your 7 Rem Mag. Make it shoot like a 7mm Whisper, 7 TCU, 7-08, 7x57, .280, .284, 7 WSM, ..., ...., .... All with the one rifle and scope you already own. The one downside is you wouldn't have the luxury of a backup rifle.

 

[PowerG]

I don't really see any advantage the .243 would have over the 7-08, except for possibly ammo availability. OP obviously has internet access, so that shouldn't be a problem. It would do excellent service on varmints, and would be a fair bit more capable on deer. I believe that with Hornady Light Magnum ammo (and their excellent Interlock bullets) the ballistics pretty much duplicates most factory .280 loads, so we're up there in some pretty good company as far as long-range capabilities for varmints, still with pretty mild recoil. Great caliber.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Get yourself a good 30-06 and be done with it.....or not. The 25-06 would be a good one, ammo isn't all that bad, money wise.

Between the 243 and 7mm-08...the 7mm!

 

[mshootnit]

I always have to drop one of these bombs in awhile:
The perfect caliber for everything from common ordinary field mice all the way up to moose is the 30-06! You knew that didn't you?

 

[PowerG]

Sums it up pretty well, hard to beat the old reliable 06.

 

[Art Eatman]

My do-all critter, me bein' a handloader, has been the '06. Round lead ball for squirrel; 80-grain or 110-grain for varmints, 150-grain for deer and 180s for elk or meese.

My backup has been a .243 carbine. I've mostly used the Sierra 85-grain HPBT, accounting for some 25+ tagged bucks and a fair number of coyotes. The 55-grain bullet does nasty things to prairie dogs.

Lotsa other good cartridges out there, of course, but these two certainly have worked for me for some forty years.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Round lead ball for squirrel;

How's that working...? I tried that years ago with astronomically disappointing results!

Tried it again some years back using a sabot, worked better but still not skwack accurate.

 

[PowerG]

Fully expecting stuff to get thrown at me, I'll throw one of my favorite heresies out there-in range, terminal effects, every useful measure of a cartridge, the difference between the 7-08, .308, .270, .280, and 06 (150gr) is negligible in the real world. They are all practically interchangable on 90%+ of the shots taken on game.