Thinking about another deer rifle...

[Olympus]

Guys, I"m thinking about filling a spot in my deer rifle collection now that I have a few dollars to spare. Some may already know, but I've always been recoil-averse. I mean growing up, went all the way up the spectrum and had 300 mags and 7mm mags. As I've gotten older, I realized I never enjoyed shooting those guns and I actually dreaded shooting them. My groups were always "that's good enough" type of thing. So over the last few years, I've sold all my larger caliber rifles to now, the biggest caliber rifle I own is a 243. That's really my favorite caliber for deer hunting. It seems to be the sweet spot for me in terms of recoil management, shootability, accuracy, and I can spend more time at the range because I actually enjoy shooting the rifle. I've actually got two rifles in 243 and one in 6.8SPC. That's pretty much the extent of my deer rifle collection right now. So I'm thinking about adding another rifle to the collection and maybe possibly going up a caliber size from the 243, for "just in case" type of thing where a 243 might not be enough gun. 243 will probably still be my "go-to" caliber for deer hunting, but I think having a caliber that's slightly larger in the collection might be a good idea. And I also reload/handload, so I could always download the larger caliber if I found a rifle I really liked and wanted to hunt with more frequently.

Right now I've been looking at the Mossberg Patriot walnut stock in 7mm-08. It's not too expensive, would make a good woods rifle, still has pretty classy looks, and 7mm-08 would be an easy caliber to reload for. They also make the Patriot walnut in 6.5 Creedmoor. And I'm not opposed to that round either, but from what I read, practical difference between the 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08 are practically non-existent at ranges under 400 yards, which is WAY longer than I'd even be able to shoot. So I'm not sure that the 6.5 Creed gets me anything PRACTICALLY speaking over the 7mm-08. 7mm-08 would be easy to reload for, plenty of inexpnsive brass, and plenty of 7mm bullets to choose from. But if the 6.5 Creed has noticeably less recoil than 7mm-08, then I might could be swayed toward that caliber. If all things being relatively equal in terms of ballistics, I almost certainly choose the caliber with less recoil. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts and opipions on this matter. Thanks!

 

[LoonWulf]

IMO, theres really little difference between the 7-08, the .260, and the 6.5CM.
The 6.5cm holds an advantage in guns with short magazines, as its very comfortable with even the heaviest bullets at 2.8"

For hunting, especially sub 400yds, I see no advantage or real disadvantage to any of them, at least on deer.
Ammo will probably be easier to get for the 7-08, tho I see more 6.5CM on the shelves here. Components maybe easier to get, and perhaps cheaper for the 7 and possibly .260, they arnt significantly so. Brass imo, isnt a huge concern for a bolt gunner, but i know some guys who will only use a case 3 times before saying its too old.
The 7 does offer a wider selection of bullet weights, but most of us wont use the whole spread, well grab something in the middle or maybe on the lighter side. That puts the performance window in pretty much exactly the same place for all three cartridges, lets say a 120 at close to 3k, and a 140, at around 2800.
So I say, pick the one you like the idea of the most. If you dont really care, then pick the one the rifle you want comes in. If they are both offered, see if ones on sale somewhere LOL......after that your on your own

As to rifles, ive only handled a mossberg patriot in the store, and never shot one. My impression is the bolts sloppy, but not horrible, maybe just this side of horrible, but it dosent bind, and the action ran smoothly besides that.
The trigger felt pretty good, and while i havent looked at it some time with very fine sand paper or a stone would probably turn it into an very good trigger.
Stock wise, the synthetic i handled was short for me a 6'2" and very average arm length, but no more so than any factory stock, and less than some. It felt pretty good and the rifle was fairly well balanced sans scope. Id like to try a wood stocked gun but havent seen one here yet.

From my research on them, as i was considering just buying a patriot in .375 instead of building out my Abolt (woulda been cheaper and id be shooting right now), they get alot of bad press from guys who have held them and gone "YUCK!" or never held them at all. I think some of this maybe carry over from the older rifles, which I handled and went "YUCK!"
People that have owned them for a while, generally, seem to be very happy with them as field rifles.

 

[slicksleeve]

I've never owned or short a Creedmoor, but we have a Remington Model Seven, in 7mm-08. Everybody in the family that hunts has killed a deer with it. Recoil isn't to bad, but I also have a .243, and quite frankly can't tell a difference in on-game performance between the two. Same with the .308, .270, etc...

 

[VoodooMountain]

I have a situation similar to you.

6.5 creedmore is a great option especially if you hand load.

243/6mm creedmoor are great as well.




As strange as it may sound I have invested heavily in 308 for low recoil .

Handloading allows a lot of flexibility. Lc brass has less volume so using h4895 allows me to get 300 savage velocities without much recoil. A guy can even go down further. Bullets are made for every velocity and readily available.

7mm-08 will carry the same recoil as a standard 308 with fewer bullet and brass selections.

Depending on what your goal is you could even pick up a 45/70 and hand load for low recoil while still being houseful on deer out to 100 yards or so.

358 winchester , 35 remington, or even 35 whelen can all be loaded down enough to utilize 357 pistol bullets for very low recoil fun.

And of course then there is the tc contender handgun but that's a whole other deal.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Well if it was me and I already have a 243 and I reload and was wanting to step up I would get a 308 and call it a day

 

[LoonWulf]

Handloading allows a lot of flexibility. Lc brass has less volume so using h4895 allows me to get 300 savage velocities without much recoil. A guy can even go down further. Bullets are made for every velocity and readily available.

7mm-08 will carry the same recoil as a standard 308 with fewer bullet and brass selections.

You could do the same with the 7-08, as forming is as simple as running it thru a full length sizer.

Also with its higher sectional density, the 7 will out penetrate the .308 with the lighter bullet, and recoil can be mitigated while still maintaining higher velocity, or recoil reduction can be greater.
The 6.5s hold the same advantages. tho forming 6.5cm takes more work.

Again, noththing wrong with the .308, or any of the other rounds that fall into this same basic category. It does have the options of heavier bullets, tho again i doubt most people would opt for the 200s out of the 08.
Most of the advantages each caliber holds are so minimal, especially when were considering a short (ish) range deer rifle, that beyond be fun to discuss, or a rifle not being available in one, there isnt any practical reason to chose one over the other......besides perhaps ammo availability.

 

[Olympus]

Those are all great points. Sounds like what I read was right, that I won’t see any practical differences at ranges under 400 yards. Whatever I pick, I definitely do want a short action caliber.

I’m not big on the big and slow rounds like the 45/70. I’d like something that I could take out West if the opportunity ever came up. I wouldn’t want to be scrambling at the last minute to come up with a rifle setup if something beside whitetail deer hunting ever became an option.

 

[joed]

Like you I've sold off my 7mm RM and .300 H&H mag, the recoil is the reason. I do have a .243 and I like it a lot. However, my all time favorite hands down is the .25-06, I've killed deer, bear and groundhogs with it. Bullets from 85 to 120 gr and not a lot of recoil. In my opinion it is enough for Elk at reasonable distances though others might disagree.

But, you want a short action and for that I would choose a .260 Rem. Why? Because the .257 has proven to me that it is a versatile size bullet for hunting and the .264 is very close in size.

 

[redneck2]

Sounds like what I read was right, that I won’t see any practical differences at ranges under 400 yards.

Guys get into whizzing matches over less than insignificant stuff all the time. You really think any critters you whack are gonna know whether the bullet is from a 25-06 or a 7mm?

As above, I’d more concentrate on the rifle and particularly the scope

 

[js8588]

Between those 2 in the Mossberg Patriot, I'd go with the 7mm-08. Why? They play nicer with 22 inch barrels. 6.5 Creedmoor isn't bad in a 22, but they really shine in 24+.

 

[jmr40]

The 7-08 is a ballistic twin to 308. Recoil is virtually the same with 1 ft lb less in favor of 7-08. In equal weight rifles you'll never notice. With similar bullets trajectory is less than 3" flatter in favor of 7-08 at 500 yards and the 7-08 has about 30 ft lbs more energy at 500. Once again neither you, nor any game animal will notice the difference. On paper the 7-08 wins, but I chose 308 simply because ammo is cheaper and easier to find.

This photo illustrates why I like the 6.5 CM. The bullet on the left is a 143 gr 6.5. The bullet to the right of it is a 150 gr .308 followed by 178 and 200 gr .308 bullets. Compared to the .308/150 the 6.5/143 uses 5 gr less powder to shoot a 7 gr lighter bullet 150 fps slower at the muzzle. That adds up to a substantial reduction in recoil. But the LONGER 6.5 bullet will out penetrate any game animal, including elk at any range. And the more aerodynamic 6.5 bullet will catch the 308/150 in speed at about 150 yards and smokes the 308/150 beyond that range. You'd see the same numbers if you compared 140 gr 7-08 bullets.

If we move up to the .308/178 gr load muzzle velocity is about the same, penetration on game is about the same, trajectory is about the same, and energy numbers are about the same out to 500 yards. But the 308 now has even more recoil. Beyond 500 the 6.5 starts to pull away. You'd see similar numbers with the better. 7-08 loads.

The 200 gr bullets in a 308 offer much better penetration than any of the others. But you can't shoot them fast enough from a 308 to be of much help at longer ranges. These are best in 30-06 or one of the magnums.

At "normal" ranges the only real advantage 6.5 CM offers over 7-08 or 308 is less recoil. But for a lot of people that is a good enough reason. If you want to extend the ranges you shoot 6.5 beats the others handily.

 

[Art Eatman]

My legs cheated on me and got old and tired. So, I went away from my pet rather-heavy '06 and bought a Rem 700 Ti when they were relatively new on the market. 7mm08. Ready to hunt at 6.5 pounds.

I've been impressed by the modest amount of recoil at the benchrest. And the ballistics of the cartridge suit me just fine for Bambi in the 200-300 yard ranges.

 

[StrawHat]

Check out the Savage Lightweight Hunter.

Kevin

 

[z7]

Add to your list a suppressor

Reduces recoil and muzzle blast, makes everything about shooting better

Expensive and the paperwork suck, but it is game changing

As far as what caliber to step up into, get the one you want. A 308 has more energy at typical hunting distances, but the 7mm and 6.5’s do great with less recoil

 

[someguy2800]

I would just get a 308 and load it to whatever power you want it to be. A 125 grain accubond at 2500 FPS would have less recoil than your 243. Keep a box of full power ammo on hand for your just in case.

 

[horsey300]

Guys, I"m thinking about filling a spot in my deer rifle collection now that I have a few dollars to spare. Some may already know, but I've always been recoil-averse. I mean growing up, went all the way up the spectrum and had 300 mags and 7mm mags. As I've gotten older, I realized I never enjoyed shooting those guns and I actually dreaded shooting them. My groups were always "that's good enough" type of thing. So over the last few years, I've sold all my larger caliber rifles to now, the biggest caliber rifle I own is a 243. That's really my favorite caliber for deer hunting. It seems to be the sweet spot for me in terms of recoil management, shootability, accuracy, and I can spend more time at the range because I actually enjoy shooting the rifle. I've actually got two rifles in 243 and one in 6.8SPC. That's pretty much the extent of my deer rifle collection right now. So I'm thinking about adding another rifle to the collection and maybe possibly going up a caliber size from the 243, for "just in case" type of thing where a 243 might not be enough gun. 243 will probably still be my "go-to" caliber for deer hunting, but I think having a caliber that's slightly larger in the collection might be a good idea. And I also reload/handload, so I could always download the larger caliber if I found a rifle I really liked and wanted to hunt with more frequently.

Right now I've been looking at the Mossberg Patriot walnut stock in 7mm-08. It's not too expensive, would make a good woods rifle, still has pretty classy looks, and 7mm-08 would be an easy caliber to reload for. They also make the Patriot walnut in 6.5 Creedmoor. And I'm not opposed to that round either, but from what I read, practical difference between the 6.5 Creed and 7mm-08 are practically non-existent at ranges under 400 yards, which is WAY longer than I'd even be able to shoot. So I'm not sure that the 6.5 Creed gets me anything PRACTICALLY speaking over the 7mm-08. 7mm-08 would be easy to reload for, plenty of inexpnsive brass, and plenty of 7mm bullets to choose from. But if the 6.5 Creed has noticeably less recoil than 7mm-08, then I might could be swayed toward that caliber. If all things being relatively equal in terms of ballistics, I almost certainly choose the caliber with less recoil. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts and opipions on this matter. Thanks!

Short action, extra firepower, and less recoil..... you didn't specify what you might hunt out west that you couldn't do with your .243 so here we go. You already have the spc, it's lonely, get a .270 wsm, recoil with an 8 lb gun and a 130 gr bullet @3000fps will be less than the .308 165s and 180s. Grab some h4895 and you can light load some 100 gr abs or gmxs, but even with 4166 you're looking at 15ish ft-lbs of recoil and 3400 fps with the Lil pills. I reckon the whitetail won't be vertical long enough to complain, and if you gotta go bigger you can run into 7 mag territory pushing 150s fast. With modern bonded and monometals, I don't see the need for a 150 for anything continental, but you can make that call.

 

[Olympus]

Short action, extra firepower, and less recoil..... you didn't specify what you might hunt out west that you couldn't do with your .243 so here we go. You already have the spc, it's lonely, get a .270 wsm, recoil with an 8 lb gun and a 130 gr bullet @3000fps will be less than the .308 165s and 180s. Grab some h4895 and you can light load some 100 gr abs or gmxs, but even with 4166 you're looking at 15ish ft-lbs of recoil and 3400 fps with the Lil pills. I reckon the whitetail won't be vertical long enough to complain, and if you gotta go bigger you can run into 7 mag territory pushing 150s fast. With modern bonded and monometals, I don't see the need for a 150 for anything continental, but you can make that call.

I had a regular 270 for several years. Its recoil was more than I preferred. I think I'll probably stick to something in the 308 family.

 

[Charliefrank]

I know this cartridge probably isn't relevant any more, but the .257 Roberts would probably fit your needs nicely. The 7-30 Waters is also a great little deer cartridge. I probably wouldn't use either one for elk, but both are very mild in the recoil dept. The 6mm Remington also slides in there too.
Yeah I know I have a soft spot for older cartridges.

 

[Axis II]

Don't do it whatever you do!! lol.

I got bit by the bug and before I knew it I had a 12ga slug gun with scope, single shot 45-70, lever action 45-70 and 44mag carbine for my "deer rifles". after a year or so I realized I just wanted another gun and trying to justify it as a hunting gun and now one was sold and the others just sit there and don't get used. Your 243 is a great deer round for under 200yards and if its just a I want a new gun bug thing I would get a nice target rifle or pistol.

 

[cdb1]

I like the Patriot, especially in wood, and would much prefer one over an Axis, RAR or 783. In equal weight rifles I can’t tell a difference in recoil between a 6.5 Creedmoor and 7mm-08. I prefer .264 caliber over .284 but that is just personal taste because I’m not going to shoot at the distances that favor the .264 over .284. If elk were to possibly ever be on the menu I’d favor 7mm-08.

Someone already mentioned.257 Roberts, you won’t find one in a Patriot obviously. With your recoil concerns I think the Roberts would be fine and dandy, even though like Carlin I’m never fine and dandy at the same time, with the exception of once in 1975 at Ma Crosby’s in Ciudad Acuna.

 

[Gtscotty]

For a low recoil deer hunting, I don't think it gets any better than the 6.5 Creedmoor: excellent trajectory and penetration with high BC/SD bullets, rifles, ammo and components available from pretty much all manufacturers. Additionally the 6.5 does great out of standard 22" Sporter barrels and very well even out of shorter 20" barrels if you want to run a can. Availability of .308 and 6.5 is going to be better than 7mm-08 most places. If you don't like the recoil level of the .270, you're probably not going to be real fond of .308. Of course you can load any cartridge down at the expense of performance, but if you're going to do that, why not just start out with a cartridge that has lower recoil using normal weight, full velocity loads?

 

[FL-NC]

I love the 243 for deer. My last 5 were killed with 223, which I am also enjoying for that purpose. I recently got a Ruger American in 300 blackout, which I am eager to try out as well.

 

[rabid wombat]

When my wife got into hunting, after a lot of research, I chased down a 257 AI for her. I liked it so much, I bought a 257 Roberts for me. In the same vein, I now want a 25-35 lever gun. I have heard a ton of good things about 6.5 Swede, also.

As for recoil, consider the following:
https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

[LoonWulf]

I like the .25s, but theres very little a .25 will do a .243/6mm won't do as well, or better. With the fast twists having even more of an advantage.

This from a guy who rebarreled his .243 to 250AI.

The 6.5s are unusual in that they have really heavy bullets for caliber, most likely owing to the orignal 140-160grn military loads.
30grn of bullet weight at the top end does make a difference Imo, and not just in bc.

That said, I would happily take a .257, .250, or larger 25 over a .243 for hunting. But I would probably look at a larger caliber if I already owned a .243.

 

[someguy2800]

“Deer rifle” is my favorite excuse/justification for buying another rifle. I currently have 7 guns waiting in line to get to shoot a deer and I usually only get 3 or 4 a year. And you know some of the old favorites will feel bad if they don’t get to go hunting so I have to give them a chance too. At the rate I’m going I’m going to die with “deer rifles” that have never even been to the deer stand!