Need some help..differences between Russian AK-47 and Lancaster Arms AK-47?

[dodging230grainers]

I'm looking to buy a good quality AK with the dark red / dark steel Russian finish. I found these two guns on Atlantic Firearms:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta/storeproduct655.aspx

The "Russian Red" at $850. Beautiful furniture, but is the Russian quality superior to most AKs?

And then:

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/beta/storeproduct629.aspx

The Lancaster Arms russian red styled AK. At $640, $200 cheaper than the Russian one.


Questions:

1. What makes the $200 difference price tag, if anything?
2. Is the Lancaster finish as authentic and dark as the real Russian one? In the photos, it looks a little like a lighter finish.
3. Which is the higher quality AK overall, or are they both high end?
4. Photos or personal experience with either would be great

thanks!

 

[RP88]

from what I've heard, they are the same on the inside i.e. parts kits of unknown origin and of potentially bad previous condition.

 

[MD_Willington]

The "Russian" is a converted Saiga rifle.

 

[dodging230grainers]

So...forget the "Russian" one I assume?

What about the Lancaster?

 

[nalioth]

So...forget the "Russian" one I assume?

What about the Lancaster?

Um, no.

The "Russian Red" is either from Red Jacket or Lancaster, if my facts are correct.

The converted Saiga will be the better choice as it's an all new rifle underneath, not one made from parts of unknown origin.

Don't tell me 'they look pretty good', folks. A blast cabinet, park and paint cover up a lot of wear. . .

 

[dodging230grainers]

The converted Saiga will be the better choice as it's an all new rifle underneath, not one made from parts of unknown origin.

I assume you are referring to the first link, the one for $850?

Don't tell me 'they look pretty good', folks. A blast cabinet, park and paint cover up a lot of wear. . .

This means the lancaster arms model is made from old parts?

 

[nalioth]

This means the lancaster arms model is made from old parts?

As I've said before, if it's not a Saiga conversion, a WASR, an Arsenal (or several ancient imports I"m not gonna list all of), and on the market today, it's built from a parts kit.

Do you know where they got the parts kit? They don't either. It could have come right out of military warehouses without being issued to anyone, or it could have come out of a ditch next to the skeleton of it's former owner.

 

[dodging230grainers]

I see. So to be on the safe side, the imported Russian one assures that it is factory new and of decent quality?

 

[nalioth]

I see. So to be on the safe side, the imported Russian one assures that it is factory new and of decent quality?

I'd say a Saiga conversion from Red Jacket or Lancaster would be of excellent quality.

Saigas are all new guns.

 

[daskro]

I bought one of the Lancaster AKs a year ago. It's a great build, of all the AK builds I've handled, the only ones that top Lancaster are Arsenals. Sure the Lancaster uses a parts kit, but so what? It's an AK, not a FAL or G3 where the part kits and the assembly actually matters. If I was going to drop 900+ on an AK, I'd get an Arsenal, not a saiga conversion.

Also something to take in mind the Lancasters come with a very nice warranty.

Finally as far as authenticity goes, both are authentic looking but neither are going to be "authentic." Really you're spending an extra 200 dollars on a matching pistol grip and a side plate without a warranty.

 

[camslam]

Bought a Lancaster a couple months back and absolutely love it. I think they do a good job on the old AK's, and like the previous post pointed out, they give you a lifetime warranty in case something does go wrong.

Working with Atlantic Firearms was a breeze also. I highly recommend both outfits wholeheartedly.

 

[MIL-DOT]

Saigas are great, no doubt ( I have two ) but the first AK in my present harem was a Lancaster Romy G in "russian red", ordered it straight from Lancaster for $499 a couple years ago. It was dead-on accurate right out of the box, never a problem, fit and finish are immaculate. My one issue was the fact that they forgot to include the cleaning rod. I called that evening and spoke with Mike Barnes, who told me to hang on, give him a couple minutes and he'd call me right back. 20 minutes later he calls and tells me he's sending me the missing rod, plus a sight adjustment tool, a sling, an oiler bottle, and I forget what else. The stuff showed up, free of charge,a few days later.
Lancaster gets two thumbs up from me !!

 

[daskro]

To further contribute, here is my lancaster ak in the middle during a recent move.

 

[Atlantic Firearms]

The Russian Red Classic is a conversion as we cover in the item description

The base rifle built at the Russian Izmash arsenal & imported by Russian American Armory Company for the US AK market , receiver marked made in Russia Izmash Arsenal, Saiga 762 x39 .Once in the US they are carefully converted into the legal AK47 format to comply with current import regualtons

The Lancaster Red rifle is a kit build that has the original style Russian red furniture and style , both are great rifles and will do the same thing, it all boils down to your budget if you want a better rifle the Saiga convert is the way to go , if you want to save a few bucks the Lancaster is great . If you would like to speak via phone to discuss the two please feel free to email and let us know you are from the HR.

[email protected]

 

[Otto Octavius]

what is the thickness of the saiga receiver and are they stamped, cast or milled?

 

[MAKster]

All Saigas are stamped receivers. The stamped v. milled is totally overblown. The Russians used stamped receivers in their full autos so there is no chance a semi-auto receiver will wear out. The milled receivers are also much heavier.

 

[HorseSoldier]

The milled receivers only ever got built in the first place because late 1940s Soviet production methods couldn't figure out how to make stamped receivers to spec.

 

[jon_in_wv]

Remember that Atlantic Arms is a DISTRIBUTOR not a manufacturer so the dummies who are criticizing how Atlantic builds its guns are completely wrong. Check the builders the guns come from and see how they do it. Most of them have a website. You'll find there are a few guys who posted here have a vendetta against Atlantic, there isn't a grain of truth to what they say. I've bought from Atlantic and I felt they did a great job. I got one of the cheaper AKs that was built by Tennessee Gunworks and it has been flawless through over 500 rounds. I'm very happy with the fit and finish and the overal quality of the build.

 

[Atlantic Firearms]

Guys all of the AK rifles are going to be going up in price and hard to come by, we were totally wiped out by the end of this week and do not see the situation getting better until mid next year with the potential of a new Assautl Weapons ban looming on the horizion. We were notified by a few firms that supply us that the price was going up approx $40 -$60 bucks per rifle.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

Blaine, on a similar note, what's the difference (other than $150 in price) between the Polish Interarms AK-74 and the Bulgarian? Just that the Bulgy kits tend to be higher quality?

 

[nalioth]

what's the difference (other than $150 in price) between the Polish Interarms AK-74 and the Bulgarian?

The Bulgarian AK-74 should follow the Russian pattern with the standard Kalashnikov features.

The Polish Tantal (not really an AK-74) is a modified Kalashnikov design, with a wire side folder, and a left side selector (fake for us peons), and a combo muzzle brake/grenade launcher.

 

[Dollar An Hour]

The Bulgarian AK-74 should follow the Russian pattern with the standard Kalashnikov features.

The Polish Tantal (not really an AK-74) is a modified Kalashnikov design, with a wire side folder, and a left side selector (fake for us peons), and a combo muzzle brake/grenade launcher.

Since the Tantal's left side selector is disabled, and the muzzle brake looks the same in the photos as the Bulgarian brake, these two should feel about the same when firing, right?

The Bulgy has a solid-looking side folder though. I'd probably opt for the fixed stock on the Tantal.

 

[nalioth]

Not sure what you're asking.

The 5.45x39 has no appreciable recoil.

The muzzle devices were designed to work during full auto usage, not single shots.

 

[kcmarine]

Basically... as to your original question... you can save money by buying the Lancaster, and you will be served well.

The Saiga has more snob appeal, and if you decide to resell it at some point (if we still have that ability in 5 years), it will fetch a higher price for being made in Izhevsk on the same assembly line as the AK 100 series weapons. Here's basically how the AK market hashes out.

1. Properly converted Saiga with AK 100 series trim.

2. Arsenal rifles- Bulgarian in origin, but are known for high quality and finish. Unfortunately, there have been some complaints about the quality of the work they have done recently, and they can be spendy to get a hold of, especially for the milled models.

3. Lancaster and Vector kit assembled rifles. They seem to be of a bit higher quality than the Century conversions, and are fairly priced for what they are. You won't have the snob appeal of the above options, but you won't regret your purchase.

4. Non- converted Saigas and Saigas that have been mildly converted. I put these where they are because there aren't a ton of economy conversion Saiga builds out there for sale. Most people who buy them and convert them end up keeping them. The stock Saiga is down here because of its inability to use standard AK magazines out of the box
and because they require conversion in order to do so. If you don't mind 10 round magazines and the hunting stock, they are the best value on the market for a centerfire semiautomatic rifle.

5. Century builds. Now, before you WASR owners out there start yelling at me, I will tell you that it is possible to get a nice WASR. The problem is one must make sure they inspect the rifle before buying it. Check for magazine wobble, front sight canting, and gas block canting. Functional problems can exist with Century guns, but more often than not, you will see only the above problems. If you don't have any of these problems, the only real downside to the Century builds is the aesthetics of the rifles, which, to be honest, aren't that great. However, you can solve these problems with some sandpaper, wood stain, a park kit, and a bit of patience. Many owners are satisfied, but if you have the money, you'll be better served to get the Lancaster or Vector, or even a converted Saiga.

Unfortunately, prices are skyrocketing from panic right now... really, the best time to have gotten into the AK game are about 8 months passed. I myself have a Saiga, and while it is not converted, I still love it. It's a joy to shoot. Don't worry about the recoil being too much. 7.62x39mm should not hurt a grown man at all. You can shoot it all day without a problem.

 

[nalioth]

5. Century builds. Now, before you WASR owners out there start yelling at me, I will tell you that it is possible to get a nice WASR. The problem is one must make sure they inspect the rifle before buying it. Check for magazine wobble, front sight canting, and gas block canting.

I'm sorry, but I've had enough of the "mag wobble" buzzword.

All Kalashnikovs have some mag wobble. These aren't precision manufactured AR15s.

What you are looking for is the condition where the mags swing so far one way or the other that the rifle fails to feed or jams because of it.

This is the "mag wobble" to look out for.

As far as the canted barrel parts, there are hundreds of thousands of military AKs out there with canted parts that run just fine. You want to look for the ones with obvious cant so you can avoid them.