Need wisdom on 40 S&W loads...

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lefteye42

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Following data in 4 reliable manuals, my 1st batch of .40 handloads actually measure out better than factory rounds. Passing plunk test in Glock barrel.
Starline virgin brass, CCI 500 primers, CFE Pistol (6.9 gr), per Hodgdon data for 165 gr Berry's FP.
Pressure @ 28,000 psi. COL 1.130.
Forster CO-AX press, Hornady dies (3), Lee FCD to just close the bell.

I really can't see why these carefully assembled rounds are any less safe than factory ammo.
I just can't get my head past the warnings (in manuals) against firing in Glock 27 pistol.
Maybe I'm just TOO cautious, because these loads are for my Daughter-in-Law's gun?
Maybe I should just buy a Wolf barrel & not worry about it?

Appreciate thoughts/advice.
 
lefteye42 said:
Following data in 4 reliable manuals, my 1st batch of .40 handloads actually measure out better than factory rounds. Passing plunk test in Glock barrel.
Starline virgin brass, CCI 500 primers, CFE Pistol (6.9 gr), per Hodgdon data for 165 gr Berry's FP.
Pressure @ 28,000 psi. COL 1.130.
Forster CO-AX press, Hornady dies (3), Lee FCD to just close the bell.

I really can't see why these carefully assembled rounds are any less safe than factory ammo.
I just can't get my head past the warnings (in manuals) against firing in Glock 27 pistol.
Maybe I'm just TOO cautious, because these loads are for my Daughter-in-Law's gun?
Maybe I should just buy a Wolf barrel & not worry about it?

Appreciate thoughts/advice.
Click to expand...

As long as you're using a fully supported chamber you should be fine. My first gen 27's DO NOT have fully supported chambers. I'm unfamiliar with newer Glock 27's.

you may want to read this:

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/unsupported-chamber.1660323/
 
BrianC636 said:
And what's wrong with using the factory barrel?
Click to expand...
That's what I'm asking. The "Unsupported" chamber is basis for claims against using reloads. Like I said, the warnings are in reliable-source manuals. Guess I'm just looking for peace-of-mind. Thanks for input.
 
Just courious what gen glock?
I shoot nothing but my home brew plated loads in my 3 glocks 40sw
 
No, the warning is about using "RELOADS" as is the same warning in any other gun. They are not responsible for blown up guns using unknown ammo.

The 40 SW barrels are better supported now than the earlier ones. Properly handloads are not any different than factory ammo (now lead bullets is another debate)

Glocks loose fitting chambers are what makes them reliable but other guns have them also
 
I have 2 gen 3 glocks, 5,000 reloads later everything is good to go.

Be safe, know your loads, and double check the powder weights, Everything should be fine
 
OP,
The loose and unsupported chambers in Glocks, particularly the 22 and 23, were primarily with the Gen 1s. IIRC G27s are all Gen 2 and up.
I've loaded and shot many a round of my Glock 22, 23, 27, 35 and 24.

Are you new to reloading or just new to reloading this caliber for this gun?

One thing to look out for is the unsupported chamber guppy belly as you pick up range brass. Not all of it comes from Glocks, though much of the 40 brass you will find may have been fired in Glocks. If you look around there are pictures of this. These cases should not be reloaded as they will be weak in that area.

And the warning you are referring to, is that from the Glock owner's manual? If so, nearly all companies have a warning about reloads.
If it's a warning about the Glock 27 in a reloading manual, where did you find that one?

Now, as an above poster mentioned, there is a general warning about lead rounds in Glock, and possibly other, polygonal rifled barrels. But that is a discussion for another day.
 
I would not worry about shooting your reloads is a gen 3 glock, but as asked above are you reloading now ? have you reloaded for semi auto handguns before ? if your worried I would say buy factory ammo.
One thing I would NOT do is reload some ammo and give it to another to shoot especially if you have not been personally shooting said reloads yourself
you need to work up the load yourself and shoot this load yourself first , I would NOT just pick a load out of a book load it up and hand it over to another to try,

lefteye42 said:
because these loads are for my Daughter-in-Law's gun?
Click to expand...
There is a liability to reloading for another if something goes wrong , gun gets damaged or worse the gun company and just about all involved will point fingers at you , just something to beware of
if she only shoots once in a while , factory ammo may not be a bad idea IMHO
 
Like others have stated, I too have loaded and shot many thousands of rounds through my Gen2 G22, gen3 G23s, and Gen4 G27, mostly Berry's plated bullets (165 gr). As long as your load is within the safe range of a reloading manual you should be fine. As a general rule I stay at least 0.2 gr below the listed max. I have no need to push the limits so if I can get good accuracy and similar POI as factory ammo by loading 0.5gr less than max I am fine with that. And in all of my range brass and reloads I have not encountered the much talked about Glock Bulge. I'm sure it happens but I think that is from pushing max charges or something. If you stay a bit lower than max you are likely to never get bulges, especially with gen3/gen4.

My best load with 165 gr Berry's is 6.5 gr Power Pistol. Heavier charges open up the groups.
 
mstreddy said:
OP,
The loose and unsupported chambers in Glocks, particularly the 22 and 23, were primarily with the Gen 1s. IIRC G27s are all Gen 2 and up.
I've loaded and shot many a round of my Glock 22, 23, 27, 35 and 24.

Are you new to reloading or just new to reloading this caliber for this gun?

One thing to look out for is the unsupported chamber guppy belly as you pick up range brass. Not all of it comes from Glocks, though much of the 40 brass you will find may have been fired in Glocks. If you look around there are pictures of this. These cases should not be reloaded as they will be weak in that area.

And the warning you are referring to, is that from the Glock owner's manual? If so, nearly all companies have a warning about reloads.
If it's a warning about the Glock 27 in a reloading manual, where did you find that one?

Now, as an above poster mentioned, there is a general warning about lead rounds in Glock, and possibly other, polygonal rifled barrels. But that is a discussion for another day.
Click to expand...

Have been loading for 8 yrs, 7 calibers. New to 40 cal.
 
JO JO said:
I would not worry about shooting your reloads is a gen 3 glock, but as asked above are you reloading now ? have you reloaded for semi auto handguns before ? if your worried I would say buy factory ammo.
One thing I would NOT do is reload some ammo and give it to another to shoot especially if you have not been personally shooting said reloads yourself
you need to work up the load yourself and shoot this load yourself first , I would NOT just pick a load out of a book load it up and hand it over to another to try,


There is a liability to reloading for another if something goes wrong , gun gets damaged or worse the gun company and just about all involved will point fingers at you , just something to beware of
if she only shoots once in a while , factory ammo may not be a bad idea IMHO
Click to expand...

I intend to test these loads first. Been reloading 8 yrs. New to this round, so keeping good caution. Thanks for good advice.
 
I worried about this extensively with my first hand loads for my gen 3 glock 23. I do not hot rod loads in there and have had no issues through 1000 rounds or so. Most of my shooting is plated 165s and a mild charge of unique. I use all once fired brass and I am very choosy on brass.

I would not hand one of my kids a box of reloads for their pistol unless they loaded them with me. Good luck and be safe out there.
 
lefteye42 said:
I just can't get my head past the warnings (in manuals) against firing in Glock 27 pistol. Maybe I'm just TOO cautious, because these loads are for my Daughter-in-Law's gun?
Click to expand...
index.php


As to Glock not recommending shooting reloads ... Guess what thousands of Glock match shooters use all around the world every week? That's right, reloads! ;)

And by Generation 3, Glock has improved the case base support of 40S&W that Glock barrels are comparable to other factory barrels or better. Above comparison picture of Gen3 Glock barrel with Lone Wolf barrel shows enlarged chamber mouth but that is just at the mouth. While 40S&W Lone Wolf barrel provides better case base support, Gen3 Glock barrel case base support is comparable if not better than most other factory barrels.

index.php


As to "Glock bulge" this is my take. Above case, which was not shot in a Glock (as Glock striker leaves distinct rectangle indent), shows case bulge that expanded to dimensions of the barrel chamber. If I see bulging that is more than this, especially more towards case base, there may be thinning of case wall (weakening of case wall) which cannot be fixed by "push through" resizing (Once you thin the case wall, you cannot make it thicker again).

For this and many other reasons, particularly for 40S&W, when people complain of overly bulging their brass, I tell them to decrease the powder charge or change to powders that work better at lower pressures. With mixed range brass with unknown reload history and condition of brass, I prefer to use mid-to-high range load data with powders that work with lower chamber pressures and still produce accuracy.

lefteye42 said:
Maybe I should just buy a Wolf barrel & not worry about it?
Click to expand...
If you are using factory Glock barrel and reduced pressure loads so cases are not bulging much, I would not worry about it.

If you are loading higher pressure near max/max loads then tighter Lone Wolf chambers with fully supported case base will provide added insurance of case base blow out. Added bonus of using tighter LW barrels is less working of brass and resizing effort is much less.
 
I just bought a Redding G-Rx "bulge buster" die, and have been feeding my .40 through it before loading. I am new to .40 as well, and I have to admit that the bulge busting is not my favorite task.

Even when using the EGW U-Sizing Die, I was getting about 10 rounds or so out of 500 that would not pass my case gauge. I now use the G-Rx die before sizing, and I am getting almost 100% passage.

I also worry as @bds says about thinning brass from overly-bulged brass, so when I pick one up that I can tell right away looks really "pregnant", I toss it in the recycle bin without hesitation. Also, if a piece of brass is particularly difficult to force through the G-Rx die, same thing. Right into recycling.

I am definitely of the "when in doubt, throw it out" school of thought.
 
On the note of safety make sure and check for bullet setback.
My understanding of the 40 S&W problems started back in the early days of the cartridge and glock pistols. IIRC Federal 40S&W brass had a thinner case head (web). This plus the looser chamber dimensions of the glock pistols, and operating pressure of the round caused failures. This was true especially with reloads. I have at least one reloading manual that warns against reloading 40S&W in guns without fully supported chambers. It is from that era in time. Of course as time goes by rumors get passed on as facts. There always has to be a "one up person". So someone telling a story of how he heard of someone's gun blowing up has to one up the story by saying that they have had three blow up on them. As long as your doing your part as a reloader being, case inspection, component selection, and universal precautions in loading, you should have no problems. If you do something wrong in a bad way it may not matter what barrel you have. Pressure is pressure and it's going to find the path of least resistance when you pull the trigger, hopefully this will be always be the muzzle end. If you generate too much pressure, usually too much powder or too fast of a powder for what your trying to do, you will have an issue at some point.
 
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The 40 s&w is like the 9mm when it comes to bullet seating. Be very careful with your COL and make sure that it is not seated too deeply.
lefteye42 said:
Starline virgin brass, CCI 500 primers, CFE Pistol (6.9 gr), per Hodgdon data for 165 gr Berry's FP.
Pressure @ 28,000 psi. COL 1.130.
Forster CO-AX press, Hornady dies (3), Lee FCD to just close the bell.
Click to expand...

That actually isn't a reload as the brass you are using is new and not been fired.
 
bds said:
If you compare Gen3 and later generation 40S&W Glock barrels, case base support is comparable if not better than other brand barrels.
Click to expand...
I was only referring to how gun shop talk gets passed on. Remember that some people believe that the guy behind the gun counter is an expert. I'm not saying that I am by no means, but I try to be an informed buyer.
 
Actually it was one of the gun counter guys who told me about Gen3 Glocks having better case base support than other brand barrels as I too was parroting what everyone said about Glock barrels having poor case base support.

I said "Really?"

And he goes, "Look here" and disassembled several pistols and dropped snap caps in the chambers and behold, Gen3 Glock barrels had comparable if not better case base support compared to other barrels. I noticed at least one other brand barrel had more looser chamber too.
 
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Keep this under your hat but I shot THOUSANDS of reloads with,
get this, LEAD BULLETS through my G22 without any issues.

I'd wire brush out the barrel after 150 to 200 rounds but never had
a problem. Really, the Glock barrel never seemed to lead up any
worse than my conventionally rifled guns.

All the Best,
D. White
 
From someone who has loaded 40S&W for a while.
1. Don't trust every tidbit of "lore" that can be found in a forum. Even what is written below. Check it out for yourself.
2. Every manufacturer has a line in the manual to not use reloads or that reloads void a warranty. Firearm manufacturers must protect themselves from any yahoo that can buy a reloading setup.
3. Case support issue. IF, and I mean IF, you have a firearm that doesn't have enough support, the brass will expand (bulge) to hold the pressure where it is not supported at the feed ramp. This creates "pregnant" brass. If you don't know what it looks like, just search "glocked brass" or "unsupported chamber." The determination on whether to resize and reload this brass depends on how unsupported the chamber is, how deformed the brass is, and if the next firearm to use this brass has good case support. This is what takes wisdom.
4. **Many** times, glocked brass can be resized without a "bulge buster" die, just the normal 40S&W sizing die, and loaded in a firearm with a fully supported chamber without any issue. The issue that people freak out about, and rightfully so, is when someone thinks they can take yielded, pregnant brass, run it through a sizing die or "bulge buster" and then use it in the same firearm with the unsupported area near the feed ramp. It's like playing russian roulette for a KB. Sizing that pregnant piece of brass back didn't give it back it's strength, it just conformed it to the diameter of the carbide ring. This is a potentially dangerous situation if the previously yielded portion finds itself once again at the unsupported area of the barrel.
5. Case support issues have in large part been dealt with. An easy way to check is to plunk test for yourself, that is, to disassemble the firearm to remove the barrel and with the barrel separated from the firearm, place a piece of ammo in the chamber and inspect. Compare with the photos in the "unsupported chamber" search.
 
CJ8281 said:
The 40 s&w is like the 9mm when it comes to bullet seating. Be very careful with your COL and make sure that it is not seated too deeply.


That actually isn't a reload as the brass you are using is new and not been fired.
Click to expand...
I guess it would be a "handload" as it is not a factory load.
 
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