needed a gun because someone was fleeing?

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Grey_Mana

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The video is here.
Please keep any anti-cop sentiments off the thread.
FYI, this happened in Maryland. Generally, only criminals and police carry pistols in/on vehicles. At the end of the segment, they note that a marked police car was following behind the cycle.

The supervisor said the cop drew the gun because he felt threatened by the motorcycle backing away from him. Leaving aside that the gunman was a cop, do you see any reasonable concern for safety that would justify drawing the firearm?
 
I see no 'reasonable concern for safety' which could justify the plainclothes policeman drawing and brandishing like that.

I see no reason a plain clothes state police person would even bother with the was-speeding Motorcycle in this situation anyway, unless he wanted to bother by doing so in a professional manner, by calling a black and white to do it, or, by putting his Cherry on top and pulling the Motorcycle over in a proper and formal manner.
 
I have seen this whole video. there is a place where the bike was wheeleing down the freeway at about 100-mph before he saw the marked unit behind him. I think the plainclothes guy was on the assist ion case the motorcycle pulled a felony fleeing deal. This entire video runs about ten minutes. The bike was speeding and doing wheelies and weaving between traffic for minutes and at one or more points, the plainclothes guy was right beside him for the in fractions. I thnk the plainclothes guy handled it perfectly.
 
What it looks like to me

I didn't see the undercover cop show ID, the undercover cop looked just like an angry driver who seemed to want to take the law into his own hands. Good thing there was a marked police car behind the motorcyclist while this was happening.

Regarding the motorcyclist getting charge with a felony for recording this I'm calling **** ****. Everyone needs to be able to record the cops otherwise it is their word against non-cops and we all know how that works out.

Regarding the motorcyclist I think a year suspension from driving and a 12,000 fine could teach him not to endanger others with that kind of riding.
 
Wow - That is not good for anyone. The state has a questionable case at best. A decent attorney will get this dropped based on the fact that his intent was to record himself. If the officer asked him to turn off his recording device and he did not comply then they might have something that would stick.

As for the officer, - show badge and Identify - make commands - draw weapon. Seems he did it backwards to me.

I do see a reason to draw absolutely. Innocent life was clearly put in danger by wreckless behavior and the officer ONLY had that to go on and that is plenty to go ahead and assume the worst. He also appeared to be the only one in front of the perp. All involved are fortunate with the outcome.

Went to highschool with a guy who was fleeing police on a bike with his lights off at 5:30am on a sunday morning. He hit a car with a local pastor and family on their way to the church. Killed everyone.

I hate seeing fools on bikes and I call them in every time. They make things harder for those that are responsible bikers.
 
I don't think we know the whole story. You'd think they would have had the patrol car behind him use lights and sirens to pull him over before a unmarked car is cutting him off and jumping out with a gun.

I'll say this much, I would agree with the biker about being scared, if it were unmarked and the first thing done was having a gun pulled on me. In fact, I would have probably started to go for my CCW, and that would have been bad for every one.

However, like I said. Something weird is going on with the marked car being in the background.
 
So I guess their are NO patrol cars in Maryland with recording devices? I find this hard to believe with the technology today in almost all police cars. Would this lead to all officers with recording devices being charged with felonies? Can't have it both ways.
 
whats the violation all you folks are imagining? seems like a a fairly normal stop for someone playing the fool on the highway. cops have gotten gentler than when i rode like a fool.
 
I do see a reason to draw absolutely. Innocent life was clearly put in danger by wreckless behavior and the officer ONLY had that to go on and that is plenty to go ahead and assume the worst.
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-1- reckless implies negligent endangering of the public ... wreckless is barely a word, it might imply a lack of wrecks if it is, in fact, a word at all
-2- the "danger" was long past, a slowly retreating suspect/perp doesn't validate this stupid escalation
-3- if an officer wants to put on his/her "working" hat, he/she needs to at least clearly ID themselves verbally and show a badge BEFORE brandishing their sidearm ... that was brandishing, some asshat didn't get the response he desired and waved a gun about to change someone's mind
-4- brandishing is not the momentary revelation of a concealed gun, it is the willful use of a displayed gun to punctuate demands, the "cop" is lucky he didn't get himself a nice tire mark for that stunt, because the motorcyclist (who is an asshat, but still is a citizen) had a more legitimate "fear for safety of self" than some jerk jumping out of a car with a gun. Remember Jonathan Ayers and the botched stop that resulted in some wannabe SWAT-cop being shooting him fatally?
-5- a camera on top of a helmet is a pretty damn obvious indication that recording might be occurring ... the charges about recording don't pass even a basic common sense test.
-6-if police don't want to be recorded, that's just too bad ... the police, government, and all public servants are answerable to the citizens for their official actions, if they can enforce a law against recording police, how long until a law restricting thinking bad thoughts about public servants or saying mean things about Officer McBrandish there?
 
The rules of engagement are different for LEOs vs. armed citizens. The responsibilities are different- an armed citizen can (and should, where possible) avoid the sort of situation where producing/using a firearm might be necessary. The LEO has no choice in the matter. There can be no 'leaving aside' the fact that the person on the scene with a gun was a LEO.

Armed citizens cannot pattern every aspect of their behavior after that of LEOs. And if an armed citizen wants to act like a LEO, he or she had better become one.

I don't know the law re. fleeing felons in MD. I don't know what kind of trouble a LEO could get into for escalating the level of force used in a given situation too far.

But in most jurisdictions, someone backing away from a situation involving an armed citizen is best not challenged, hindered or prevented from doing so- otherwise the risk is that the legal definition shifts to one of mutual combat. The defender must at whatever cost retain his or her position as a legitimate user of defensive force without crossing the line to offense.

Once again- time in the spectator seats in your local superior (or equivalent) courtroom is free- they don't charge admission. Watching portions of a few felony trials in person is a cheap education.

fwiw,

lpl
 
Sorry, I don't have a big issue with the cops actions. The guy did back away, and that might be considered fleeing or resisting arrest (I know, that's pretty subjective...), and the cop did immediately holster the pistol when the biker stopped.

What I do have a problem with, is the guy being charged for filming the event. I find that a rather chilling development.
 
I agree with the above poster. A guy was speeding on his bike and a cop pulled a firearm to get ahold of the situation. Yeah, he might have been a few seconds off with his announcment of "police!", but no one died.

I imagine the charges on the speeder of filming are just to gain leverage on him so he won't presss charges on the cops misaction. I think this will all blow right over.
 
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I imagine the charges on the speeder of filming are just to gain leverage on him so he won't presss charges on the cops misaction. I think this will all blow right over
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Well, I have big issues with government misusing power to intimidate citizens. I have enormous issues with a law on the books saying you can't film police. The only reason for such a law is to prevent a citizen from providing evidence for a "Rodney King" type scenario.
 
Can anyone find the whole video? I looked on youtube but couldn't find it. I would love to see it in full and not out of context.

However, from what I saw the plain clothes officer was in no way justified and IMO should be reprimanded. Imagine if the rider had been a CCW'er, he's in the middle of his lane pulling up to a light, when a car pulls into his lane and the driver exits the vehicle (obviously aggressive at this point) then they draw a firearm while advancing on you without ever identifying themselves. From the time when the off duty cop's vehicle enters the frame it takes him about 4 seconds to stop and exit, then another 2 seconds to draw and another 5 seconds for him to identify himself (IMO from the riders point of view he was a citizen, not an officer up until when he identified himself). Replace that rider with someone that practices with their CCW often and this could have gotten very ugly.

I agree that the extra charges seem like an intimidation tactic, and sadly I agree that it will probably work and this will all just blow over.
 
Replace that rider with someone that practices with their CCW often and this could have gotten very ugly.
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Yep probably would have been real ugly when that 1 + ton bullet, being driven by a police officer, runs him over. Defending his fellow police officer.
 
If his fellow officers were that close at the time, then why did the off duty cop even need to get involved? The rider was obviously coming to a stop before the off duty cop ever got up next to him. The only way that I can see the plain clothes officer needing to make the arrest would be if the on duty officers were still too far away to ensure he would be caught, so he would take the opportunity of him being stopped to try and arrest him. Brandishing still wasn't justified in this situation IMO. They do show a uniformed officer approaching them afterwards but that may have been several minutes later.
 
Is this what a "police state" looks like?
Of course it goes without saying that you shouldn't be a jacka$$ while driving.
 
The cop was wrong to draw his pistol.
There's just no doubt about it, he was wrong.
The biker was not threatening him in any manner whatsoever.
Guys like that should not be allowed to carry a badge or a pistol.
And the Maryland police force only makes themselves look even less competent by standing by the idiot.
And prosecuting the guy for filming the incident is wrong as well.
Heck, the camera was not hidden, it was clearly visible on top of the guy's helmet.
If I were "the man in charge" I would fine the biker for speeding and reckless driving and drop all other charges (and return the guys computer), and I would suspend the cop and make him see a shrink to see if he has a problem managing his aggression and anger.
 
Well, I have big issues with government misusing power to intimidate citizens. I have enormous issues with a law on the books saying you can't film police. The only reason for such a law is to prevent a citizen from providing evidence for a "Rodney King" type scenario.
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Such laws should be struck down by the Supreme Court.
 
Sorry, I don't have a big issue with the cops actions. The guy did back away, and that might be considered fleeing or resisting arrest (I know, that's pretty subjective...), and the cop did immediately holster the pistol when the biker stopped.
Click to expand...
Do you believe that "fleeing" or "resisting arrest" are valid reasons for a cop to shoot someone whom, to the cop's knowledge, has committed no crimes other than speeding and reckless driving?
 
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