Negligent Discharge

[threefortyduster]

I'm going to say I've had a half ND. I say that because I was still acquiring the sight I wanted to shoot and instead of putting my finger on the guard, I pulled the trigger. The gun was pointed in the safe direction, at something I wanted to destroy (in this case, bottle of water), I knew it was loaded, etc. I just wasn't quite on target yet (still hit it!), and the gun going boom surprised the hell out of me. Been much more careful since, that was almost 9 years ago, been pretty good since.

 

[larryh1108]

Just a point. You had an "accidental discharge", not a "negligent discharge". Too many shooters use the terms incorrectly and it will end up hurting us if we don't get our act together.

If you look up the definition of negligence it means you deliberately did something you knew, or should have known, was dangerous and your acts could have resulted in the injury or death of yourself or others.

If you are making every attempt, as you did, to handle your guns properly and had a brain fart and did somehing wrong, as you did. It is still an accident. That does not excuse the act. You are still responsible, and it was still preventable, but from a legal perspective the difference is huge.

I will respectfully disagree with this statement. He had a negligent discharge. The bold in your statement says why. He "should have known" the gun was loaded. Rule #1. He did not "make every attempt" to make sure it was clear. When he picked it up again, he did not check the chamber.

An accidental discharge is when something breaks and the gun fires when your finger was not on the trigger. You did nothing to cause the gun to fire.

A negligent discharge is when you do something to cause the gun to fire when you did not expect it to. You did not make sure the chamber was empty and you pulled the trigger. If he broke 2 rules, it is not an accident but was negligence. He accidently had a negligent discharge may be closer to the truth but it was not an AD.

 

[Ala Dan]

Just thankful that you or no-one else was injured~!

These incidents DO happen; even to the most experienced shooter's~!

Just be careful, and have a great day~!

 

[The-Reaver]

As long as no one was injured, and you learned something all is well.

 

[Jimineer]

Thank you for sharing. That really drives home the basic safety rules. Thankfully nobody was hit.

 

[biokillr]

I will respectfully disagree with this statement. He had a negligent discharge. The bold in your statement says why. He "should have known" the gun was loaded. Rule #1. He did not "make every attempt" to make sure it was clear. When he picked it up again, he did not check the chamber.

An accidental discharge is when something breaks and the gun fires when your finger was not on the trigger. You did nothing to cause the gun to fire.

A negligent discharge is when you do something to cause the gun to fire when you did not expect it to. You did not make sure the chamber was empty and you pulled the trigger. If he broke 2 rules, it is not an accident but was negligence. He accidently had a negligent discharge may be closer to the truth but it was not an AD.

I agree with you Larry and that is why I called it negligent. I knew the proper saftey procedures and I got complacent. (the I know what I'm doing syndrome) this mistake could have cost me dearly but it didn't which I am very grateful for.

 

[dmazur]

Glad nobody was hurt.

I also do a certain amount of dry-fire practice. Living room setting, nobody else around.

If the gun is assembled, I open the action and check it for "clear" every time I pick it up. Even though the magazine is always in another room.

This might sound a little bit crazy, but it is the "exception" Cooper referred to in "Cooper's Commentaries", vol 6 no 2-

RULE 1
ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
The only exception to this occurs when one has a weapon in his hands and he has personally unloaded it for checking. As soon as he puts it down, Rule 1 applies again.

It's not that you can't believe your eyes and prove to yourself that a gun is unloaded by inspection, and then proceed with activities like dry-firing or cleaning. It's that you dare not assume it is still unloaded at any time in the future, if you set it down. Just inspect it again.

For any "draw and present" practice, I would put magazines in another room as an added measure, and then check for clear before each session. (Because inspecting after drawing would kind of ruin the whole point of the practice session... )

 

[Warp]

On a related topic...I bought a yellow plastic training barrel for my Glock 19. You just pop out the real barrel/chamber and replace with the yellow plastic piece that is ridiculously obvious and doesn't even HAVE a chamber. It was like $15.

 

[La Linea]

No snarkiness here

Thanks, bud, for sharing that all too familiar way for something to go horribly wrong.
So far in my life, and I am an LEO by the way, the only one that went bang when I wasn't expecting it, was with an old Mod. 190 Winchester .22 when I was a youngster. The old "finger along the frame" deal.
Scared the bejesus out of me, but I am OCD as heck about checking them now before I pull the bang switch on anything but a duty situation.
It happens, learn from it and thanks again for sharing. You may have helped someone here.

 

[john wall]

I do not dryfire for practice, but for drawing, stoppage reduction drills, and trigger stroke practice, there is only one gun I use. The P model Glock Trainer. No possibility of a ND.

Needless to say, I only carry a Glock.

The one in the factory box is a G17R, and the one in the cardboard box is a G22P. The P has the regular trigger, the R is the reset model. It is only for students when I do classes.

I do not want to practice with a resetting trigger when my carry arm does not reset.

Three guns are ALWAYS loaded, except when cleaning. The G22 house gun, the G23 carry gun, and the 870P for "social intercourse" with unwelcome guests.

 

[Warp]

Where do you get the red guns?

I thought their triggers reset? (looking at gun on the right...)

 

[STW]

Sure helped me learn my lesson.
Don't do the laundry.
In itself it may be okay but why take the chance.

 

[john wall]

I am a Tn State Certified Trainer (not the HCP type), which in addition to being a Glock Armorer and Instructor, allows me to pay an exorbitant price for these guns.

They cost more than firing guns.

The P model has a standard trigger, the R model has the reset.

I use the R gun in classes to check student's trigger technique.

Worst case scenario, I get a non-firing gun pointed at me. I don't like it, but I have that built in safety of a gun that cannot be made to fire.

The guns I pass around and demo in classes are not capable of being fired.

 

[theautobahn]

Just a point. You had an "accidental discharge", not a "negligent discharge". Too many shooters use the terms incorrectly and it will end up hurting us if we don't get our act together.

I disagree. Almost no unintended discharge of a firearm is an accident. An "accident" is UNavoidable. Negligence is avoidable. He could have avoided that discharge.

That being said, since we're all airing our dirty laundry, I had a negligent discharge way back when. I was showing a friend something about a Beretta 92 (I don't remember exactly now, but I'm thinking it was the difference between SA an DA trigger pulls). I thought I had an empty gun and luckily it was pointed downrange, but it went off and neither of us were wearing ears. He must have jumped five feet in the air.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Accident

Accidents are not unavoidable.

That's a contortion of the actual definition.

Accidents are unintentional.

That doesn't mean you can't have a negligent accident. People have those all the time.

Negligent is simply what kind of accident you have.

If you're driving, and you look down at the radio and hit an animal crossing the road, it's still an accident. Negligent? Yeah, pretty much. Still an accident though.

Let's not contort the language any more than we have to.

Accidental is what happens when the unintended and unexpected happens.

Negligent is how you have some accidents.

 

[theautobahn]

Accidents are not unavoidable.

That's a contortion of the actual definition.

Accidents are unintentional.

That doesn't mean you can't have a negligent accident. People have those all the time.

Negligent is simply what kind of accident you have.

If you're driving, and you look down at the radio and hit an animal crossing the road, it's still an accident. Negligent? Yeah, pretty much. Still an accident though.

Let's not contort the language any more than we have to.

Accidental is what happens when the unintended and unexpected happens.

Negligent is how you have some accidents.

I withdraw my previous comment (in spirit, anyway; I'm too lazy to actually delete it).

 

[dmazur]

I will agree that anything other than an intentional, aimed firing can be described as an accidental discharge. However, it may be confusing to use the broader term rather than the more narrow term if the intent is educating other shooters.

For example -

1. Handgun at a range, with shooter's finger on trigger before target was acquired. Gun fires as it is supposed to, but below target. Accidental, but a violation of the Four Rules, so the use of "negligent" is probably more accurate.

2. Muzzle of a surplus bolt-action rifle is in a safe direction, gun fires as bolt is closed due to worn parts. Accidental, to be sure. If safety rules were followed, the use of "negligence" would not be warranted.

3. Handgun functioned normally until owner decided trigger pull was too heavy. Amateur trigger job created a situation where hammer would drop when slide was released. Finger was not on trigger, all safety rules were followed. Accidental? Yes. Probably negligent as well, due to the unsafe condition created by the owner.

Dozens of examples similar to the above could be crafted to show the nuances. I believe that the important thing is to use the most narrow, harsh term applicable, so that we don't "forgive" the event by mentally filing it away as an accident.

IMO, accidental discharges can occur. But the vast majority are negligent, and that means they can be prevented with some added diligence.