Neighbor claims to have a $25,000 shotgun, shot it yesterday.
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TrapperReady
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Or, if your house is worth $150,000, do you understand why someone would buy one for $176,000? Or why someone might have a $26,000 Harley? How about travel trailers? It's easy to spend $26,000 on one... and within a few years, the depreciation will eat up almost all of that.
As I said in a previous reply, people spend money on all sorts of stuff. I know people who've spent around $25,000 on a wedding. Heck, at least a $25,000 gun is going to last longer than one day and have some significant resale value.
Rarely will I make judgements about how someone else chooses to spend their own money (Precious Moments "collectables" and hideous lawn ornaments being a couple notable exceptions
). All I ask in return is the same consideration.BigG and TrapperReady:
I think my post wasn't clear. I applaude anyone who can afford and does buy those great expensive guns. At the most basic level, it stimulates the economy. For the buyer it gives great pleasure. For us non-purchasers who see them at the range, at the gun shop, or at a friend's house, it gives us something of beauty to admire, and for some, to long for.
What I was trying to convey is that (1) I personally don't have the money, nor ever will, to buy one of them; and (2) my shooting isn't great, and I don't get enough time to practice/enjoy it, so for me a gun like that would not be a great investment.
I've spent plenty on admittedly stupid things in my life. That's why I said "to each his own." All I ask is that if we strike up a conversation at the skeet range or the sporting clays course you let me attempt to crack a few clays with such a fine gun. Afterwards I'll buy you some barbecue and a cold tea.
I think my post wasn't clear. I applaude anyone who can afford and does buy those great expensive guns. At the most basic level, it stimulates the economy. For the buyer it gives great pleasure. For us non-purchasers who see them at the range, at the gun shop, or at a friend's house, it gives us something of beauty to admire, and for some, to long for.
What I was trying to convey is that (1) I personally don't have the money, nor ever will, to buy one of them; and (2) my shooting isn't great, and I don't get enough time to practice/enjoy it, so for me a gun like that would not be a great investment.
I've spent plenty on admittedly stupid things in my life. That's why I said "to each his own." All I ask is that if we strike up a conversation at the skeet range or the sporting clays course you let me attempt to crack a few clays with such a fine gun. Afterwards I'll buy you some barbecue and a cold tea.
TrapperReady
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You can count on that!
I've had the pleasure of quite a few folks letting me try their guns, and I am always wiling to pay that forward.Frankly, a huge amount of this thread is probably just a reflection of the limits of internet-forum communications. Were we all sitting around the clubhouse after shooting a few rounds, I'm sure it would be way less contentious.
That would be a pleasure, ALHunter, and TrapperReady! I figured you were not trying to be snobby. I also do not have $26,000 to burn, but can conceive of a time that I will. I probably won't be buying an ultra premium shotgun, as that isn't my main love, but some kind of ultra premium gun might.
I am particularly fond of handguns - commercial Lugers, Colts, S&Ws, etc. You can run up into bucks on a few models of those. And don't forget those H&H double rifles, with the panatela-sized cartridges. And full autos ...
I am particularly fond of handguns - commercial Lugers, Colts, S&Ws, etc. You can run up into bucks on a few models of those. And don't forget those H&H double rifles, with the panatela-sized cartridges. And full autos ...
So true but I wouldn't call this contentious. Spirited perhaps.
Now if we were all together in the clubhouse I'd take albanian aside hand him a box of shells and my Perazzi and we'd go to the line. He could find out for himself whether the gun is worth the extra money. This is what Perazzi owners do to ensure there are future Perazzi owners for our used guns.
I've hooked three new Perazzi owners that way. I'd be bugging TR to learn when his new Kolar was coming. They are great guns.
Of course McCracken would be sitting in the corner with a smile on his face, holding his 870, having kicked all of our behinds.
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TrapperReady
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PJR - I'll let you know when it's ordered. We're waiting to see how a couple things shake out right now. If all goes well, I'll be placing my order before the end of the month.
Perazzi was also on the short list, but Kolar's plant is literally 2 hours from my doorstep and I've been very impressed when they worked on the guns my wife and I currently shoot.
Perazzi was also on the short list, but Kolar's plant is literally 2 hours from my doorstep and I've been very impressed when they worked on the guns my wife and I currently shoot.
Terrierman
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We are not in the same league here, but when I was growing up, I used to go squirrel hunting with a friend who happened to be the son of the preacher where we went to church. His dad let us borrow guns from him. The one I normally picked was a 16 gauge SS Winchester Model 21. It was a different world then and once we asked and got told OK and didn't screw anything up, permission was permission, no check the guns in or out or anything like that. I used that gun a lot over a couple of years and really got to like it. At the time I had no idea whatsoever how lucky I was.
Sir Aardvark
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My friend has a couple Krieghoff's that he shoots sort of regularly.
He said that one of them cost him $12,000.00 many years ago and you could tell just by looking at the wood on it that it was an expensive shotgun.
The other one looked similar to the first, but had a lot more engraving on it; my friend wouldn't tell me how much that one cost, only that it was more than the first - I think he was kinda embarrassed about it costing so much.
He said that one of them cost him $12,000.00 many years ago and you could tell just by looking at the wood on it that it was an expensive shotgun.
The other one looked similar to the first, but had a lot more engraving on it; my friend wouldn't tell me how much that one cost, only that it was more than the first - I think he was kinda embarrassed about it costing so much.
"Frankly, a huge amount of this thread is probably just a reflection of the limits of internet-forum communications. Were we all sitting around the clubhouse after shooting a few rounds, I'm sure it would be way less contentious."
I think you are right. I am surprised at how often things get blown out of proportion on the net. Someone says something and someones else rips them for it and all of a sudden there is a flame war. If the same thing had happend in real life, it would have got a good laugh and almost never have turned ugly. Jokes and smart remarks that are funny in real life sometimes just sit right when they are on your computer screen and you feel the need to flame back to defend yourself against what you see as a personal attack. It gets really silly and I try and avoid it but sometimes I get caught up in it.
I really don't care what people spend their own money on, I never would tell people that they can or can't buy something. I was trying to argue a point not trying to tell people what they should buy. If someone wants to spend $25K on shotgun, it is fine with me. All I was saying is that for me, I can't see where the $15,000-$20,000 goes in terms of preformance. I have never owned a $25K shotgun so I can't imagine.
I think everybody has a limit to what they will pay for preformance and my limit is probably lower than some. I am a bargin hunter at heart and I am looking for the best bang for my buck. I would rather have a really nice $2K shotgun and spend the other $23K on other guns.
I think you are right. I am surprised at how often things get blown out of proportion on the net. Someone says something and someones else rips them for it and all of a sudden there is a flame war. If the same thing had happend in real life, it would have got a good laugh and almost never have turned ugly. Jokes and smart remarks that are funny in real life sometimes just sit right when they are on your computer screen and you feel the need to flame back to defend yourself against what you see as a personal attack. It gets really silly and I try and avoid it but sometimes I get caught up in it.
I really don't care what people spend their own money on, I never would tell people that they can or can't buy something. I was trying to argue a point not trying to tell people what they should buy. If someone wants to spend $25K on shotgun, it is fine with me. All I was saying is that for me, I can't see where the $15,000-$20,000 goes in terms of preformance. I have never owned a $25K shotgun so I can't imagine.
I think everybody has a limit to what they will pay for preformance and my limit is probably lower than some. I am a bargin hunter at heart and I am looking for the best bang for my buck. I would rather have a really nice $2K shotgun and spend the other $23K on other guns.
Yeah, I'd trade my $300 shottie for the $30k shottie that the old guys take up to the local trap range... after 4 rounds of trap I'm sore and I'm looking at these 70 year old men laughing at this 'young buck' getting beat up by his own equipment.
Haven't been around here lately and just stumbled upon this thread.
The guy with the $25K shotgun sounds like he could be a BS'er but on the other hand, $25K shotguns are not at all unusual.
Like someone else said, I've noticed a reverse snobbery when it comes to expensive things. Guns, cars, watches...you name it.
The law of diminishing returns does come into effect as you move into the high dollar shotguns. But that doesn't make them any less desireable to many people. There are plenty of people who laugh at the thought of a $3K or $4K custom 1911 when you can buy a Colt or Springfield for $500. They're missing the point though. There certainly are differences and they're not all cosmetic.
Does a $50K Patek Philipe keep better time than a $10K Jaeger-LeCoultre or a $5K Rolex? No, but that doesn't make it any less desireable to those who appreciate those things.
Everyone has their comfort level when it comes to how much they're willing to spend on something. I just hate to see people being put down because they spend much less or much more than others think is appropriate.
444 has pretty much already stated my thoughts on the subject, much better than I could have myself.
The guy with the $25K shotgun sounds like he could be a BS'er but on the other hand, $25K shotguns are not at all unusual.
Like someone else said, I've noticed a reverse snobbery when it comes to expensive things. Guns, cars, watches...you name it.
The law of diminishing returns does come into effect as you move into the high dollar shotguns. But that doesn't make them any less desireable to many people. There are plenty of people who laugh at the thought of a $3K or $4K custom 1911 when you can buy a Colt or Springfield for $500. They're missing the point though. There certainly are differences and they're not all cosmetic.
Does a $50K Patek Philipe keep better time than a $10K Jaeger-LeCoultre or a $5K Rolex? No, but that doesn't make it any less desireable to those who appreciate those things.
Everyone has their comfort level when it comes to how much they're willing to spend on something. I just hate to see people being put down because they spend much less or much more than others think is appropriate.
444 has pretty much already stated my thoughts on the subject, much better than I could have myself.
I still think there's some confusion on the dollar amounts, like $25,000, on performance in O/U's and whether they actually help your shooting.
If you accept the premise that the "baseline" O/U is @ $2000-$3200(Browning, Beretta 680's) for lot's of shooting and the features you want, then the "high end" competition O/U's are in the $5,000-$8500 range for plain grades depending on the company and model. You decide whether the high end guns are worth the 2-3 times the baseline guns.
Anything beyond those dollar numbers are cosmetic; engraving, better wood, checkering, sidelocks, rare, etc, etc. A good example from a previous post was the Blaser that was bought for $23,000. That's a $5,000 competition O/U from Germany enhanced with better wood, engraving, etc.
It's like buying a sculpture or painting except you get to shoot it. That "ain't" bad if you have the money.
Sidenote: Harrydog, I'm hard pressed to "detail" any functional difference with a single stack, steel 45 1911 past the $2,000-$2500 range. Meaning, I don't think you can make any improvements, short or long term, beyond that dollar amount. It's all cosmetic or "investment" type(rare) name brand that elevates the price. Which is fine, just not to be confused with function.
If you accept the premise that the "baseline" O/U is @ $2000-$3200(Browning, Beretta 680's) for lot's of shooting and the features you want, then the "high end" competition O/U's are in the $5,000-$8500 range for plain grades depending on the company and model. You decide whether the high end guns are worth the 2-3 times the baseline guns.
Anything beyond those dollar numbers are cosmetic; engraving, better wood, checkering, sidelocks, rare, etc, etc. A good example from a previous post was the Blaser that was bought for $23,000. That's a $5,000 competition O/U from Germany enhanced with better wood, engraving, etc.
It's like buying a sculpture or painting except you get to shoot it.
That "ain't" bad if you have the money.Sidenote: Harrydog, I'm hard pressed to "detail" any functional difference with a single stack, steel 45 1911 past the $2,000-$2500 range. Meaning, I don't think you can make any improvements, short or long term, beyond that dollar amount. It's all cosmetic or "investment" type(rare) name brand that elevates the price. Which is fine, just not to be confused with function.
Well, like I said, it's the laws of diminishing returns. You can buy a $500 Springfield, give $1000 to a good pistolsmith, and have something for $1500 that many people will say is every bit the equal of (or even better than) your $2500 Baer or Wilson or Brown. I have a custom Liebenberg 1911 that shoots better for me, has less felt recoil and muzzle flip, and is more comfortable in the hand, than any other 1911 that I've shot. To me, that's function. I can justify the price I paid for it but lots of people probably couldn't.
Everything has a sweet spot where you get the most bang for your buck and I think that is probably the $2000 - $3000 range for an O/U shotgun. Beyond that, there are certainly functional differences, but they can't be justified by everyone. Like you said, there probably are some (but not huge) functional or longevity differences between the $2500 Beretta and an $8500 Kolar. A really good shooter will notice and appreciate those differences. But are there any functional differences between the $8500 Kolar and the $20000 Kolar? I don't think so, and I don't even think Kolar says that there is. There is only so much you can do in terms of better materials and hand fitting to make something work as well as it possibly can. Beyond that it's all cosmetics. I agree with you on that.
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