Never forget how quickly violence can unfold

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

ClangClang

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2011
Messages
35
Location
CO
Oregen State Police dash cam captured this footage at a recent traffic stop. What's sobering is seeing how quickly things go from normal to something or other hitting the proverbial fan.

While the trooper was in a situation that few LEOs will encounter (and even fewer non-LEOs like myself will ever, ever encounter) it behooves everyone to understand how quickly you need to be able to react.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/10/oregon_state_police_video_capt.html
 
I agree--things happened fast, but there was ample warning that something was very wrong. Coming out of his car that quickly after the officer's car stopped was not a good sign. Standing there with his hand behind his back was even worse, and advancing after being told to get back in the car should have sealed the deal (the officer should have drawn his weapon when the man disregarded the command and began advancing--maybe he did) even before the criminal drew his gun.
 
I have seen that vid. No sure what his rules of engagement were but I have to think this guy should have been the recipient of a full magazine before he had the chance to shoot. There was plenty of warning. I would think the cop would have already had his weapon out and pointed, the spilt second the bad guy presented his gun let 'er rip.

Since I wasn't there, I don't know. But man, I saw what was coming.
 
I'm very glad the officer survived this shooting.
It could have ended much worse.

The state trooper must have drawn his weapon inside the car - he had very little time to make his own shot ... but apparently he was accurate with his return fire. \\

although the perpetrator was wounded fatally, you would never know it. he could have reloaded another magazine and fired more rounds. if you stop and think about it - this is an important lesson. How many times has "stopping power" been discussed on gun forums - it gets thrashed to death. This video shows that in the few seconds after a bullet has hit an opponent (causing an injury that will be fatal) - that person can still be active, still be moving and firing their weapon, and functioning at a high level.

thanks for posting.
it is a very strong reminder about the dangers that our policemen face every day.

CA R
 
Last edited:
I agree with ID-shooting... everyone knows not to get out of the car and one hand behind your back is a red flag. I would not like traffic duty if I were LE.
 
The perp took a fatal round in the chest but was able to run back to his car and drive away. Show this video to anyone who thinks magazine capacity should be limited. Kind of makes one want to rethink carrying just five rounds (from which I've recently gone away).
 
Thanks, tepin.

THAT was totally effed up!

I think, given the speed at which things went down, that the officer had a VERY good idea what was about to happen. The guy got out, adopted and aggressive stance, refused to obey an order to get back into his car, had one hand constantly out of view until he drew his weapon. The speed at which he drew and fired his weapon while advancing, and the apparent reload he did as he was coming up from the front of the officer's vehicle, tells me that for the officer to have even gotten in the shot that he did was pretty amazing. I'm guessing the officer was poised to draw.

A very fast track to violence, but I'm thankful the officer apparently recognized this and was appropriately ready to respond.


On the flip side of events, anybody heard about what's happened with the children and any possible outcry about this shooting? I don't find any.
 
and the apparent reload he did as he was coming up from the front of the officer's vehicle, tells me that for the officer to have even gotten in the shot that he did was pretty amazing. I'm guessing the officer was poised to draw.
Click to expand...

He was reloading his magazine that flew out of the gun and landed in front of the squad car..
 
tarosean said:
He was reloading his magazine that flew out of the gun and landed in front of the squad car..
Click to expand...

Heh! A ray of humor in the midst of tragedy.

Still...that was a pretty impressive demonstration of his ability to handle problems with his weapon under duress.

Of course, they DID say he was an Army Vet.
 
It looked like the magazine ejected inadvertently as he picked it up and reloaded. I suspect he accidentally ejected it.
 
Nothing in that vid really surprised me. It was actually a somewhat slow lead up to violence. He (perp) should have sat in the car until the officer started walking up, then bailed out shooting.

Anyway, the only way to instantly incapacitate a human (biologically speaking) is a CNS hit (brain or upper spine). After a shot to the heart, you have 7-30 seconds of conscious voluntary control still...as seen here. This is why at arm's length (which this wasn't-shooting was the best response) hand to hand is more efficient than a firearm. It's why you move to cover as well ('cause they are shooting back even if fatally hit).

It also shows how important training is particularly with gun handling. The criminal dumped the mag by mistake under stress.

Hard to tell from the vid, but I think the officer fired first, so I have no reason to think he didn't do everything right. He knew there was a threat, had his gun drawn, scored the first shot and hit of the gunfight. The rest was just chance and biology. Glad he survived.
 
it wasn't clear to me when the State Trooper fired his own weapon. if his shot was actually at the initial stages of the engagement (with his hand outside the window of his car) then this video is a real wake-up call ... in terms of how many shots were fired by the assailant after being critically wounded.

CA R
 
strambo said:
Nothing in that vid really surprised me. It was actually a somewhat slow lead up to violence. He (perp) should have sat in the car until the officer started walking up, then bailed out shooting.
Click to expand...

To quote Tim Allen: "Arrugh?"

So, now we're critiquing how a criminal should have better committed an act of violence?

I'm confused...:confused:
 
Not critiquing per se (though this is in S&T for discussion). Just noting that this really wasn't sudden in terms of many violent acts. I have seen plenty of video of sudden violence where there is little to no warning, no lead up. Just once second, normal, next second getting beaten,stabbed or shot.

Of course, being in condition white on the part of the victim is usually the case.

As a retired Navy man, I'm sure you can appreciate that when I look at any event, I dissect it like a military After Action Review to learn what I can. I don't care about good/bad, right/wrong, criminal/cop. All that matters in violence is who did the injuring, who got injured, what did they do correctly (sustain) and what could be improved?

Am I identifying with the enemy when critiquing the Japanse attack on Pearl Harbor or reviewing Mujahadeen tactics vs. the Soviets?

Put another way; we can learn the most from the "winners" in violence, not the "losers." In this case, thankfully the cop was the "winner." He clearly was oriented to the threat, had his gun drawn and made fast and accurate hits.

Criminal was not aggressive enough, gave away tactical surprise, fumbled his weapon and didn't sieze/maintain the initiative.
 
Last edited:
strambo said:
Not critiquing per se (though this is in S&T for discussion). Just noting that this really wasn't sudden in terms of many violent acts. I have seen plenty of video of sudden violence where there is little to no warning, no lead up. Just once second, normal, next second getting beaten,stabbed or shot.

Of course, being in condition white on the part of the victim is usually the case.

As a retired Navy man, I'm sure you can appreciate that when I look at any event, I dissect it like a military After Action Review to learn what I can. I don't care about good/bad, right/wrong, criminal/cop. All that matters in violence is who did the injuring, who got injured, what did they do correctly (sustain) and what could be improved?

Am I identifying with the enemy when critiquing the Japanse attack on Pearl Harbor or reviewing Mujahadeen tactics vs. the Soviets?

Put another way; we can learn the most from the "winners" in violence, not the "losers." In this case, thankfully the cop was the "winner." He clearly was oriented to the threat, had his gun drawn and made fast and accurate hits.

Criminal was not aggressive enough, gave away tactical surprise, fumbled his weapon and didn't sieze/maintain the initiative.
Click to expand...

Fair enough.

Honestly, I don't think this was "sudden" and "out of the blue" myself. The officer obviously had an inkling of the potential when the person got out of the vehicle, adopted the stance he did, and refused to get back into his car. And, as I mentioned earlier, the fact that he was able to get at least one shot off in response shows this awareness and the preparation he took for it.
 
jimbo555 said:
What's also sobering is that the officer hit the bad guy in the chest with a round that had hardly any effect!
Click to expand...

Yes...the officer hit him in the chest immediately, I think it was the first shot. And yet he kept coming. And then he drove off.

Just one more VISIBLE reason 10 round mag limits are BS IMO. Of course, better accuracy helps too :) but this just shows how stress and combat affect even professionals.
 
CA Raider said:
it wasn't clear to me when the State Trooper fired his own weapon. if his shot was actually at the initial stages of the engagement (with his hand outside the window of his car) then this video is a real wake-up call ... in terms of how many shots were fired by the assailant after being critically wounded.

CA R
Click to expand...

You can see when he was hit...it was as he was still approaching the driver's side of the cop car. And scarily...he barely flinched. So much for 'knock down' power. Anyone know what caliber the cop had?

And did the cop get hit? Never heard. Hope not.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Heh! A ray of humor in the midst of tragedy.

Still...that was a pretty impressive demonstration of his ability to handle problems with his weapon under duress.

Of course, they DID say he was an Army Vet.
Click to expand...

As a vet, I'm surprised he hit the mag release accidentally. (If that is what happened but that seems right.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top