never knew 1861 Navy was such a pain!

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Magwa45

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I couldn't fire the last chamber the second time I fired the Navy. There must have been some debris affecting the hammer because it would not fire the cap. I got home and had to pull the ball with a screw! This never happens with my 1858 Remmie! Is this common to colt models? I have been thinking about a 1860 Army, but if this is the way it is... Any remedies?
 
Sounds like you have; blocked nipple, bad nipple, debris from fired cap in the action perhaps blocking the hammer. Remedy; Tresco (sp) nipples, proper fitting caps. Colt's are just as reliable as the Remingtons and Ruger Old Armies if they are fed a proper diet. Don't give up. I predict that you come to love the Colt. BTW 1860 Army, YES. :)
 
Yes, get another Remington. I won't knock Colts, even though Remington's are superior in every way, but a pair of anything is much cooler than one of each of anything else. You'll have ammunition parity, and a source of spare parts.
 
I have never experienced this problem with either my Remmies or Colts. I don't believe there's any reason to think a Colt would be any more prone to it than Remingtons, or any other design for that matter.
 
The Colt design has a ''split'' hammer face, to fit over safty ''pins'' set in the back of the cylinder, allowing safe carry of a fully loaded cylinder. In the Remington, the hammer face is solid, safety being accomplished by resting the ''nose'' of the hammer in notches cut in the rear of the cylinder, in betwixt each chamber.In the Colt design the ''split'' hammer face causes the hammer to [on occasion] ''pluck''spent caps, and deposit them in the lockwork of the revolver. Just one of the many reasons Remmies are superior.
 
Are all your nipples the same length ???
I have a Rogers & Spencer that came with 2 chambers/nipples that wouldn't fire .
Long story short; them 2 nipples were a micro-tad shorter than the others..
Measure from the seating surface to the top of the nipple.
 
Seriously the Colt is an earlier design, going back at least to the 1836 Paterson, and going right up to the 1860 Army, '61 Navy, '62 Police, all with the same basic opentop, barrel held on with a wedge key design. Oh sure, Colt dropped the ''V'' mainspring, and added the ''creeping'' [geared] loading lever, but except for the Root sidehammer, all the Colt revolvers were of the same, basic 1836 era design. Remington [and others] it could be said, used that design as a springboard, and created [arguably] a better design. That said, the Colts certainly are elegant, and point naturally.
 
The most likely cause of the problem is a spent cap or cap fragment in the action. It will likely require at least partial disassembly to correct. See the Black Powder Essentials sticky at the top of the forum thread list for Colt disassembly and assembly instructions.

The gentleman needs help correcting a problem with his revolver, not a revisionist history rant about revolver design hijacking the thread.
 
If the hammer falls and the cylinder advances, I can only assume there is debris blocking the nipple to keep that chamber from firing. This shouldn't be a matter of Remington vs. Colt designs. In the thousands of rounds I've fired from my Colts, this has not been a problem. I did start to carry a wire vent pick from the flintlock to make sure each nipple is clear before I reload. Takes just a few extra seconds. I do this with the Colts, the Remmie and the ROAs.

I have found the Colts slightly more prone to cap pieces jamming the cylinder compared to the Remmie. But I like the Colt balance so much I just put up with it. Since I am careful about the nipples and proper cap fit it's not really that much of a problem.

Hope you try the Colt 1860 Army. Mine is a Uberti and it's smooth and the nicest balanced revolver I've found, modern or BP.

Jeff
 
As stated above, you've probably got a "Cap Foul", possibly clear down into the guts. Colts are easy to pop apart just be careful not to ding up the screws with the wrong tool.

Those of us who shoot Colt (repro or real) have a tendency to tilt the gun slightly to the right and up when we cock the gun. This encourages the spent cap to fall out and away. Some guns this works better on than others. I shot a video a while back that shows what it looks like.

Have a sense of humor about your Navy, they perform very well but they do have their own personality. It could be said that Remmies are for those who just couldn't figure out a Colt. Sorry BHP FAN, I couldn't resist :neener:
 
revisionist history?I was looking at it from an engineering standpoint, nothing ''revisionist about the ''split'' Colt hammer face.It was there. it STILL is. Historical FACT, not ''revisionist''...just a design flaw. Historical fact, mykeal. I've even seen you note it, and come up with some clever ''revisionist'' fixes for it. He asked for an opinion, and I gave mine, and the reasoning behind it.
 
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No problem Fhoto Joe, I started with a ''Colt'' Navy Arms brass frame sherrif's model in about 1972. I'm well aware of their little quirks...like lifting a spent cap off the nipple, and dumping it right down in the works, past the cocked hammer.about half my sixguns are Colt's designs...the rest are better. Now where's that smiley do hicky?
 
Any remedies?
Click to expand...

Several. First, when you get a new revolver, unscrew the nipples using a nipple wrench (likely obtainable from where you bought the gun or www.dixiegunworks.com). Soak them in a small container of carborator cleaner, and then a light preservative (I use Marvel Mystery Oil) both obtainable from most any automobile supply store. Blow out the excess using an air hose or canned air.

Before loading up to shoot, "bust a cap" on each nipple, and look for a puff of smoke at the muzzle. If all goes well go ahead and load the chambers.

If after trying everything you can, forget that chamber. Then go home, unscrew the nipple, dump the powder out the back, and then use a short length of 3/16" wood dowell (not metal) to go in from the back and drive out the ball.

Cap & Ball revolvers can be great fun, but you do need to learn the quirks that are necessary to use them.

Hint: This is the place to learn... ;)
 
Me either...getting back to the solution to the split hammer face, some folks have solved it different ways. With fillers such as brazeing rod, or JB weld...this works, but I've found that if you just deburr the edges of the slot, leaving a micro-bevel the slot will cease picking up spent caps.
 
My solution is not for the faint of heart but it worked for me.( Do it at your own risk).

I used the pointed tip of a Dremel grinding tool and ground out the slot in the hammer face a bit, making a bigger circular depression with gentle edges out of a narrow slot with sharp edges. The spent caps stay on the nipples now. Pointing the muzzle up works, but in a timed cowboy action match that technique is not going to win any buckles.
 
I coined a phrase some time back "cap crap" referring to the splattered remains of a fired percussion cap that finds it way into the workings of a firearm. If you want to experience the "cap crap" blues try shooting a small framed Colt like the 1862 Colt Police.
 
there's a cure called [IIRC] the manhatten conversion, consisting of a thin brass plate secured to the blast shield with a notch just large enough for the hammer face, that doesn't allow the hammer to draw back any spent cap fragments.In my experience, the jams are caused by the hammer face notch becomeing battered, then curling in, causeing a ''hook''.You can cure this quite simply by simply cleaning out the notch with a jeweler's file, and adding a micro bevel.Or, buying a Remington...
 
I guess I am going to have to be more careful with loading and capping, maybe try some different caps. Are the Remington or RWS less prone to splitting and jamming the works? I have been using CCI. Maybe I should just remove the cylinder and wipe it down after each cylinder firing. For 30+ years I have been used to blazing away unproblematically with an old Navy Arms 1858 NMA Remington. So it goes, I like the old Colt style and will have to make some adjustments.
 
You can deburr the slot in the hammer face, or fill it in with silver solder, or braze it. Really you can tune that Colt clone to be nearly as trouble free as your old Navy Arms 1858 NMA Remington.I do prefer the Remington # 10, but use CCI # 11's as well.
 
I have always been interested in the fact that Colt and other open-top/cap & ball revolvers were widely distributed from about the mid-1850's to the early 1900's, yet contemporary writing still left to us today makes little or no mention of substantial problems of bad ignition or cap fragments jamming revolver actions. Obviously it happened, but not enough to cause Colt to make change in they're design to prevent it.

Perhaps it’s because they individually fitted cylinders to each revolver, and serial numbered the cylinder(s) to make sure they got back on the right gun during final assembly. They also had two sizes of nipples with slightly different cone lengths so they could get the right space between the hammer nose and nipple. It would appear that the original makers paid more attention to these details then the current replica manufacturers do.
 
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I think you've nailed it, sir. Even though they were ''mass produced'' by yesteryear's standard, a high degree of hand fitting went into each one before it ever left the factory.
 
ive had much more trouble with colt designes when the cap blows off and jams under the hammer.this is not such a concern with light loads but when
you start getting toward full loads it becomes more apparent.

this guy explains the problem very well at about 5.20 time frame

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7nf52k3jIA

basically the gun was pointed to the sky to cock so that the spent cap
falls from the revolver.very slow i think but if you dont do it you
have a very good chance of cap jams

yep the remington 58 was a much better revolver i think

oh ive had the caps squish down so snug you could hardly notice a cap was jammed in there
 
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