Conversion Cylinders

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Chubbo

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Hi All:
I have posted these questions on another forum, but I thought I would get the opinions of the guys on this forum also.
I am thinking of using Conversion cylinders in two of my cap & ball revolvers, one a Uberti/ Rem. 1858 .44 cal. New Army, and a Uberti/ Colt 1861 .36 cal. Navy. I want to use the cap & ball cylinders as well as the cartridge cylinders, so, they will have to be the simple two piece type, made by R&D and Kirst. There is a big difference in the two brands, the R&D cylinders are bored on a slant, or offset, and are six shot, with six firing pins, and the Kirst is bored straight through, and are five shot, and have only one firing pin. What is the opinion of the experts on this forum on this subject?
Thanks.
Chubbo
 
I have a R&D for the Ruger Old Army. All I can say is that it works fine, never a malfunction. It is a pain to reload however.
 
Howdy Chubbo,
I just saw your post on voy but didn't want to start a big argument. Too many of those over there now days.
I don't think the chambers in the R&D are offset, it is the firing pins that are at an angle. I don't think the forceing cone would hold up to slamming the bullet into it at an angle time afer time.
The Kirst, I don't know about because I don't have any. But the R&D, I have 4 of them, 2 for the Pietta 1858 and 2 for the Ruger Old Army.
I shoot with a friend who has a 45 long colt single action and I can reload either the Pietta or the Ruger with the R&D faster than he can reload his single action. When I am using the Ruger, the lever and plunger are left off and I tighten the cylinder pin screw with my thumb nail. It has never backed out or came loose on me (yet). I do shoot light loads in both the Piettas and the Rugers. They are loaded to around 550 fps.
Lee (Watcher)
 
They ARE at an angle

I e-mailed R&D and asked them it the chambers are at an angle to the barrel and here is the reply. I am not too old to learn something. I took out my name.

"Dear Mr. XXXXXX,
The 1858 Remington is drilled at 5/8 of a degree angle, this means the bullet travels two thousandths from dead center of the bore, but we chamber one thousandths high to compensate for the degree of the angle. The only way there is a problem is bad chambering in the normal firearm. The degree that we have is so slight that it has no relevance to the degree of angle.
All the other cylinders that we do are straight drilled cylinders, they are not at an angle.
I hope this has answered your questions or concerns.
Thank you,
Jennifer
R & D Gun Shop"

Guess that solves the "Who said it" question. :eek:)


l
 
Love dem Konversions

I have both the R&D and the Kirst, they both work well.

The Kirst has the benefit of being made side loading, with a little grinder time. The R&D must be totally removed.

R&D works well with 1858 remington style guns, as colts need barrel removal for reloading.

I have posted some pictures of a .36 cal colt copy, that I have modified to shoot .38 special with the kirst Konverter.

The konverter I have does not have a load gate, but the rounds are held in place by the conversion ring while shooting.

I ground a channel in the recoil shield, and reblued the frame. Took a couple days work.

Both R&D and Kirst products are top notch. They both function well, and accuracy is not a problem.
 
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I have the R&D conversion for my Pietta '58 and I have been nothing but thrilled with it. It has been alot of fun to take to the range and work rounds through.
 
Kirst

:fire: I purchased a Kirst Konversion cylinder for more than the revolver cost. (A Pietta .36 navy) Accuracy was not impressive beyond 15 yards. At 25, the bullets were starting to tumble.:cuss: (I was using hollow based bullets, so I know they were engaging the rifling).

After many months of expirementation and testing I discovered the cause. The cylinder chambers did not properly line up with the bore. The bullets hit one side of the forcing cone first and were being asymetrically distorted.

An example of poor engineering! I finally figured this out way too late to send it back.:banghead:

PS Did I mention I had already filed a loading port in the recoil shield?:mad:
 
20 cows, Kirst will usually make these things right. I suggest you contact them.

I have heard of a lot more timing issues with the Kirst cylinders than the R&D ones. I'm not sure why. Kirst will generally make them right though if you give them a chance.
 
Third Rail,

They make a 38 special conversion for pietta 36 cal colts. This Konversion also works in the pietta 1862 colt. The Uberti Konversion won't work in their 1862, due to some size difference.

As for my 1862 colt, I took it to the range and fired non hollow based wadcutters at 50ft and could easily hit a pie plate, though grouping was poor. I have heard tell that R&D now offers barrel lining to .357 so that normal rounds may be used.
 
1858remington,

Good to hear re: availability of the cylinders. Where did you pick it up, how hard was the installation, etc.?
 
Third_Rail said:
1858remington,

Good to hear re: availability of the cylinders. Where did you pick it up, how hard was the installation, etc.?
Click to expand...


Midway has a selection of R&D conversion cylinders. Problem is they are about $225 each. Ouch!!!
 
The Kirst Konverter can be purchased through the Kirst Konverter or River Junction web pages.

Yes, they cost about $230, and the cost of a cap and ball revolver is $150 to $200. Granted, you could probably buy a decent, already made cowboy gun for the same money. But by Konverting, you end up with a piece of history that falls between cap and ball and the cartridge gun. Plus you have the pride in showng off your handywork, and the feeling of accomplishment when you pull the trigger.

The basic Konversion, like the R&D, is not ported and must be removed to load and unload. For an 1858 Remington replica this is easy as sin, and takes no modifacation to make it work. You simply swap the BP cylinder for the Konverter.

The ported model requires a little time with a dremel tool, and a little cold blue work. The hardest thing is getting past the idea that you are going to grind on your revolver.

Kirst supplies a template with their Konverters to help you locate what metal needs to be removed. after field stripping the frame, you clamp it in a vise with padded jaws, rubber cement the template to the frame, and spend time with your dremel. The trick is to take your time, letting the frame cool if it gets too hot.

Start out with a corse grit sanding wheel, they seem to work better than a grinding stone. I checked the alignment of my work by inserting the cylinder and ring to make sure that the ring edges matched with the channel I was grinding into the recoil shield.

After the channel is cut, take a polishing wheel to the channel and make it smooth like glass. Also make sure the channel has no sharp edges that might cut you when you load the gun.

A Basic cold blue kit treats the white metal, just follow their inclosed directions.

Kirst says the whole process can be done in a day, I took a week on my first one, just because I was a bit unnerved about doing it myself. My second gun took about the same time, but I also had to cut the port in the ring as it was a basic Konverter.

It's alot of work, but the end result is worth it. Plus, carving the channel in the recoil shield makes putting caps on easier when you shoot Cap and ball.

Kirst just announced a ported Konversion for their .31 cal colts to shoot 32 s&w. so much for my savings.:)
 
1858, THANK YOU! That was just the description I was looking for. :D

Looks like I'll be ordering a kit for my 1862 snub.
 
Hey guys. So, I want to buy a "1862 Police Snubnose .36 Caliber Revolver" from Cabela's(Pietta), but I don't want to port it. I might buy the ported Kirst from River Junction for $249.95 but I heard mention of one around $230? So my question is this: can I buy an unported version for this gun? Or, if I get the ported one at River Junction, how much tooling do I need to do if I don't want to grind a loading channel in the frame as I have limited tools at my disposal and don't want a firearm? Thanks.

Micah

I also found some R&D converters at The Possibles shop. They're for Pietta 1851 - 1861 Navys but if I'm correct the Pietta snubnose uses the same frame. So, logic dictates that they should fit. For $50 less and, assuming that it is "drop in" like they advertise this seems like the better deal(As I dont want to port anything).
 
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If you don't want to port your gun, Kirst makes a Konverter that looks like a cap and ball cylinder with fake nipples. This keeps the old style look on your repro. Know, however, that if your NOT going to carve out a loading channel in the recoil shield of your colt repro, you will be required to remove the barrel of the revolver to reload. I personnally dont like foolin with the bloomin barrel wedge of my colt repro, and like to shoot more than fiddle with my gun, so to each his own.
 
Third Rail,

I have R & D conversion cylinders for my Pietta 1858 NMA and for my Ruger ROA, couldn't be happier with them.

I considered the Kirst gated versions, but my understanding is that once that is done, it is no longer a BP pistol by ATF std's. That is to say, you've "manufactured" a centerfire pistol and it is yours for the duration of your life. You may not sell it as a BP pistol but are required to go through regular handgun procedures in the event of a sale.

You might want to check the Kirst web site for more info on this.
 
Pocomoke, since anyone legally able to may manufacture a firearm, and at a later date sell it (but not have made it FOR sale), that doesn't really matter too much to me.

Thanks for the heads up, though.
 
Third Rail,

Aggghhhh....I've been living in Maryland way too long. Thanks for the clarification.
 
By installing the kirst konverter you have NOT manufactured a gun by ATF standards. This is because you have not permanently altered the gun in such a fashion that inhibits it from firing cap and ball in its original fashion. The Konversion can be removed and the BP cylinder inserted and fired.

If you modify it in such a way that the original BP cylinder cannot be used, then you have manufactured a weapon. For example: lining a barrel

Actually, cutting the load channel in the frame makes shooting the BP cylinder easier because you can access the nipples, and the caps fall away better between shots.
 
Conversion cylinder for .31 ???

QUESTION:

I know that a conversion cylinder is made for the Uberti .31 1849.
BUT
Will that cylinder also work in the 1848 model
(Looks like the same gun- but no loading lever under the barrel)

Anyone know???

[email protected]
 
Will that cylinder also work in the 1848 model
Click to expand...

Yep, works quite well. The 1848 without the loading lever is the perfect platform for this conversion.

When I first received my R&D cylinder, it was very hard to fit, but I sent it back R&D, and they made it right, at no cost. It works very well now, and the accuracy is surprisingly good.
 
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