New 1911

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NOLAEMT

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So I have a question for the experts here at THR.

There is a very good chance of me going to Gunsite for their 250 pistol course this winter.

The closest to a "duty sized" handgun I currently own is a HK USPc45. which is a great carry gun, but I feel is a little small for the kind of work I would be doing at a course like this. I have wanted a 1911 for a while now, and I feel like this would be an excellent time to get one, and get familliar with it before going. It would also become my wintertime/open carry gun.

I have been thinking of the new ruger SR1911, as well as the S&W "E" series 1911, and the springfield loaded. Does anyone have any comment on which would be a better gun? Or just any comparison/advice, etc?
 
for a lower end 1911, I got a Para GI Expert (around $600) and it is great, might be about what you are looking for, also remingtons new 1911. STI Spartan fills that description too. I cant wait to get a Ruger SR1911, I love Rugers and I love 1911s.
 
S&W is going to have some proprietary non-1911 parts. External extractor, their version of the Swartz safety, etc. I like S&W, but I thought you should know that going in, if you didn't already. I like the Springfields, but I would have to change a few things on it if it were me. That ILS would have to go if it were mine, and I'd probably get the ejector staked (or do it myself). Also not a big fan of ambi safeties on 1911s, the connection between the two sides is often weak and is something that could break, rendering your pistol unusable until you dig inside. Of Springfield's line up, I kind of like the Range Officer the best, for the amount of money that it sounds like you want to spend anyway. I would get the sights swapped out for some fixed tritium sights from Harrison though. I would say you could just get a no frills basic 1911 and send it to have the work you want done on it, but I don't think it would be back in time for your course.

Jason
 
The S&W E-series guns don't have the firing pin safety. They do have the beefed up external extractor from Performance Center 1911s. I can't tell you one way or another if they're a good value.

The SA loaded 1911s are a known quantity, and a good value in production 1911s. I've owned multiple SAs, and all of them were very good values for the money.

The Ruger SR1911 is new and unproven at this point.

That's just my end user observations. Hilton Yam is one of the most respected 1911 smiths in the country. Here are his thoughts on a first 1911 - http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/01/choosing-your-first-1911-some-thoughts.html
 
Of the guns you listed.......better bring your HK for a back up.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say that... now if it were Kimber or Para on the other hand...
:neener:

Just kidding.

In a similar price range check out some Colts.
The steel Colt XSE (O1980XSE)
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/Colt...XSESeries.aspx

Colt Rail Gun (O1980RG)
http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/Colt...ltRailGun.aspx
Click to expand...

When did Colt finally get rid of those ugly and uncomfortable duck-tail grip safeties?! I missed that change. Last time I looked at a XSE, they had the duck tail safety, and I didn't like it at all. That plus the Series-80 safety kept me from buying one. I like them better now.

Jason
 
Zerodefect said:
Of the guns you listed.......better bring your HK for a back up.
Click to expand...

Why's that? I could say the same for any 1911, or any pistol for that matter. :rolleyes:


What's your budget look like for this pistol? If you are wanting to stay around the same price as a Loaded, I'll second grabbing a Range Officer from Springfield and throwing the Harrison fixed sights on it.
 
Your biggest problem will be finding any of the above to buy before this winter.

If you choose the S&W I suggest a non-railed model with the caution that multiple users on another forum have been plagued by problems, some with multiple RAs to Smith and one with a resulting replacement being sent. My non-railed has been 100% thus far but only has a few hundred rounds through it to date. There are thoughts that moving production to Maine may have come with a few glitches.

If you choose the Ruger, keep it lubed and keep an eye on the slide and frame rails as at least one member here experienced a lock up due to metal on metal contact. They are new to market though very promising. Look for Joe Chambers' excellent review.

If you choose the Springfield, throw away the magazines and proceed to break in as usual.

I see no reason your H&K couldn't be used for the course though I'm not familiar with requirements. I did happen across the Loaded Package on Bud's Gunshop today, if you hurry...
 
Of the three you have mentioned, I'd choose the S&W E-series.

With the upgrades of the E-series, I feel you're getting better function than the unproven Ruger and better QC than the Springfield. The move away from the firing pin safety and the addition of the optimized extractor from the Performance Center models is a big thing
 
I hesitate to suggest not getting a 1911 (now), but if your HK is your primary carry weapon, it would make sense to me to take a training course with it. Yeah, "it's a bit small" but it is what you are comfortable with and currently carry. You said the 1911 would only be for wintertime/open carry. I grew up in NE Georgia and winter don't last too long even there. If you're in south GA I'd say it barely exists :p.

Definitely get a 1911, but don't "rush" into it. And unless it was a Wilson or comparable, I'd be hesitant to rely on it for a course unless I'd had time to put a few thousand rounds through it. That said, I've really had no issues with either my Springer or Baer that a quick clearing wouldn't have allowed me to complete a course of fire.
 
Thanks for the advice everyone!

I agree that I would probably be fine taking the course with my HK, but I'm not one to pass up the opportunity for a new gun. I'll look into a S&W E series, as well as the springfield TRP.

I want one now, as it will give me the chance to put it through its paces before going. And reguardless of what I get I will be bringing the HK as a backup. Hopefully the 1911 will also be finding its way into my normal carry rotation, as I don't mind carrying a larger gun, and I shoot the 1911 style well, and its thin profile is pretty easy to hide.
 
If you're thinking about TRP money consider giving Dan Wesson a look. Your best source for any answers you seek can be found here: https://severnscustom.com/Home_Page.html

Any custom work can be done in house as well and will be as good as there is. Good luck in your search.

Just wanted to add Dave also has several Les Baers in stock including accuracy guaranteed models, another excellent choice previously mentioned.
 
If its your carry gun than take it. Its large enough to pass off as a duty weapon (Seen one in a security officer's holster once, didn't look wierd.) plus its the gun you should become most familar with.
 
I have a Ruger SR1911 and,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, it's a sweetheart to shoot. I use ball ammo in mine for practice and self defense because,I have no malfunctions when it comes to defending myself and making sure that the ball or semi-wadcutter does the right job. Worked in ww2 so it works fine for me and won't plug up.
 
I often switch guns during training anyways just to get as much experience with my night CCW, as my day oriented CCW pistol(s) get. Just to mix it up.

For example I make sure to use a different gun on the starting warmup drill on day 2, than the gun I used in the starting warmup on day 1.

Without knowing what features you're after, and not being able to see your hand wrapped around a 1911......... by the time this thread is over we will have recommended every 1911 out there, putting you back to square one.
 
NOLAEMT said:
as well as the springfield TRP.
Click to expand...

If you're looking into the TRP, I would strongly recommend it. I can't think of a better gun for my money ($1240 if you're LE/Military). Dan Wesson was mentioned also. If they gave me a discount, I'd probably consider the Valor as well. Shot both, and loved both.
 
I bought a Springfield G.I. model for $489, and sent it to the custom shop for some reliability/accurizing work as well as Novak sights (custom shop invoice was $475). It's better than an off-the-shelf "Loaded", and has the added benefit of having been worked on by a competent gunsmith.

I used that pistol in my CHL qualification, and from 7 to 20 yards, every shot landed in the 9/10 ring, even during the rapid-fire phase (empty the magazine in less than five seconds). I couldn't be happier.
 
Skylerbone said:
Your biggest problem will be finding any of the above to buy before this winter.

If you choose the S&W I suggest a non-railed model with the caution that multiple users on another forum have been plagued by problems, some with multiple RAs to Smith and one with a resulting replacement being sent. My non-railed has been 100% thus far but only has a few hundred rounds through it to date. There are thoughts that moving production to Maine may have come with a few glitches.

If you choose the Ruger, keep it lubed and keep an eye on the slide and frame rails as at least one member here experienced a lock up due to metal on metal contact. They are new to market though very promising. Look for Joe Chambers' excellent review.

If you choose the Springfield, throw away the magazines and proceed to break in as usual.

I see no reason your H&K couldn't be used for the course though I'm not familiar with requirements. I did happen across the Loaded Package on Bud's Gunshop today, if you hurry...
Click to expand...
Why throw away the mags? Mine have been flawless through over 3000 rounds.
 
X-JaVeN-X said:
I ran across this video a couple weeks ago. Some people like this guy and some hate him, but he does pretty in depth reviews. It's a review of an E-series 1911 by S&W.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fSVKs_-2EQ

I have the 178011 1911 from smith which is in their pro series and I love the thing.
Click to expand...

That's not an E he's reviewing, he mentioned the E at the beginning for comparison sake. Search for Vuurwapen's SW 1911 E review for thorough and 4x shorter review of the actual E.
 
Suggested tossing the mags because they're hit and miss with far too many reports of miss. In fact I'd modify my suggestion to the following: if you buy any of the 3 mentioned for the purpose of running it hard at an expensive training course then you owe it to yourself to bag up the factory mags and buy a new set of CMCs or Tripp Research mags to take with. Make sure every one of them is reliable, number them and keep a round count.

When you get home you'll have new factory mags to play with at the range.
 
I'd take the factory mags as well. If nothing more than to test their reliability under some hard use. Besides, if they fail, clearing the malfunctions is great training as well. :)
 
whats your price range? TRP puts you in a whole differant tax bracket. if it's not too much get it. the dan wessen is in that price point, very nice. and if you can still find one the kimber SIS is very sweet. if your staying in the 800 ballpark i would recommend springfield only because ruger is new to the 1911 game (i'm a ruger nut, luv'em), but having said that the ruger should be fine, and if it ain't they will take care of you. customer service-wise springfield and ruger are at the top. S&W external thing, not my cup of brew.

whatever you get, reliability is the name of the game, and mostly 1911's need to have the barrels throated and polished to run hollow points reliably. & tune & polish the extractor. gunsmiths call it a reliability package, or action job sometimes.

i didn't understand it at first, but one of the best things about the 1911 is the potential for a fantastic trigger. either a drop in tool steel trigger or a trigger job.
 
If it needs throated and polished to run right and didn't come that way from the manufacturer then it was a poor choice. I'm not against having it done if the smith knows how to perform the work correctly but many do not.

You wouldn't want a steel trigger (shoe) unless you're setting up an original spec style 1911 with a heavy trigger pull, say 8-10 lbs. The tool steel parts would be the hammer, sear and disconnector. How they are prepped will determine how "nice" the trigger feels. If you buy a $500 1911, $200 worth of ignition parts and pay a smith to fit the parts and perform "reliability" work you'll have spent $1000 and you'll still have a $500 1911, albeit with a (hopefully) nice trigger. Better to spend the money up front.
 
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