New age powders???

[kalielkslayer]

Asking for options from people that transitioned to RL 16, RL 23, RL 26, IMR Enduron 4451 and 4955.

The calibers I load for are primarily 22-250, .243, 7-08, .280, 7mm mag and .338 mag.

I usually do my load development range work in the summer, but early in the morning so 50-60 degree temp’s.

Both the magnum calibers really do well with RL22. And I probably have enough to last me the rest of my life. The 7 mag does an honest 4” group at 600 yards with a 160 gr Accubond and RL22. But I’ve read so much about how temperature sensitive RL22 is. I shoot at 4,500 ft in elevation so I take that into account when hunting at 8,000+ feet.

I really want to know if I should spend the time to develop a load with these newer powders, will I see a benefit?

I have a butt load of IMR 4350 and that is the 2nd best, or 3rd best powder in 3 of these cartridges. H414, RL19 slightly out perform IMR 4350 with minor velocity and accuracy gains. I was thinking RL16 might be the ticket?

looking for real life experiences.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've tested some loads with the 4451 in my 6.5 CM. It gave up about 100fps and the groups were not near as tight. My neighbor got burned with RL22 a couple of years ago, and moved away from it. He developed the load in 90F+ temps and went hunting in the mountains where they were in the 20's and elevation. I recommended one of the newer more temp sensitive powders for him. I went from a good load with RL19 to blowing primers when it heated up.

 

[AJC1]

If you have a good load, now is absolutely not the time to be changing things up. I do a ton of testing, to figure out loads based on what I can find. Searching for something new when you have ample supply of works great seems silly. A small change like imr to h4350 to test temperature stability would be as far as I would reach.

 

[Howa 9700]

I have 2 pounds of the 4955 I'd be happy to trade for the 4350. Really happy to trade for.

 

[Ru4real]

Asking for options from people … 7mm mag

I shoot at 4,500 ft in elevation so I take that into account when hunting at 8,000+ feet.

I like RL-22 in 7mm Mag, same as you. But a couple years ago I couldn’t find any so I went all in with IMR-7977 because that’s what I could buy. You and I shoot and hunt at similar elevations but I’ve not used the 7mm in either of my past two hunting seasons.

In my opinion, temp stable powder makes a small difference (~ 50 fps) but from my limited testing, not enough difference to make a difference. If you find RL-22 or IMR-7977, buy all you can because you won’t see it again soon, probably.

 

[Charlie98]

I had the same experience as Blue with IMR4451 and the 6.5CM… it got the job done, but I won’t buy any more. I did find some H4350…

For what it’s worth, I’ve not found the ‘new age’ pistol powders to be All That and a bag of chips, either.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I like RL-22 in 7mm Mag, same as you. But a couple years ago I couldn’t find any so I went all in with IMR-7977 because that’s what I could buy. You and I shoot and hunt at similar elevations but I’ve not used the 7mm in either of my past two hunting seasons.

In my opinion, temp stable powder makes a small difference (~ 50 fps) but from my limited testing, not enough difference to make a difference. If you find RL-22 or IMR-7977, buy all you can because you won’t see it again soon, probably.

I have an adequate supply of RL22, but the .338 really eats it. From memory, like 78 rounds per lb. But I’ve picked up 4 lbs over the last year and had some before that, but not enough. RL19 is what I haven’t found. I use that for the .280 and one load for the wife’s 7-08. H414 has been discontinued I’m guessing since I haven’t seen that in a few years. And that’s the other powder I use for the other round in the 7-08. That’s why I picked up a couple lbs of the RL16, to play with in the 7-08.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I have 2 pounds of the 4955 I'd be happy to trade for the 4350. Really happy to trade for.

I have some “old” IMR4350 that came in the tins. But in the last couple weeks I saw it in several places online. I picked up 4 lbs from Brownells. Stay persistent and look at the “where reloading components are available” daily.

 

[kalielkslayer]

If you have a good load, now is absolutely not the time to be changing things up. I do a ton of testing, to figure out loads based on what I can find. Searching for something new when you have ample supply of works great seems silly. A small change like imr to h4350 to test temperature stability would be as far as I would reach.

For me now is the perfect time. I have 6+ months before any possible tag, plenty of time to test loads, shoot them at distance, get the scope dialed for that load.

 

[AJC1]

For me now is the perfect time. I have 6+ months before any possible tag, plenty of time to test loads, shoot them at distance, get the scope dialed for that load.

It's more a problem of finding the exact components you want not about test time.

 

[kalielkslayer]

I've tested some loads with the 4451 in my 6.5 CM. It gave up about 100fps and the groups were not near as tight. My neighbor got burned with RL22 a couple of years ago, and moved away from it. He developed the load in 90F+ temps and went hunting in the mountains where they were in the 20's and elevation. I recommended one of the newer more temp sensitive powders for him. I went from a good load with RL19 to blowing primers when it heated up.

I haven’t had either experience and have used both of those powders. I did have sticky extraction with RL19 in the .280 now that I think about it. My recollection is it was during load development, not a change due to temp or elevation after I had developed an accurate load. But have heard similar stories a lot thus the purchase of the powders I listed.

What did you substitute for the RL19?

 

[25-20 WCF]

IME the smart reloader would develop his hunting load at close to the temperature at which he’s going to hunt. It just makes no sense to me to develop a load in summer heat then hunt with it in cool/cold weather. Of course that requires the hunter to plan ahead, and sometimes life won’t allow us the time we need. Still, it is possible to determine if an extra grain or two will compensate for any loss of velocity in the cold. Group size is determined by the load’s pressure/velocity and may be different in the cold and the hot.

BTW a 90 grain load will empty a pound can in 78 tips. That’s a really big case .338.




.

 

[kalielkslayer]

IME the smart reloader would develop his hunting load at close to the temperature at which he’s going to hunt. It just makes no sense to me to develop a load in summer heat then hunt with it in cool/cold weather. Of course that requires the hunter to plan ahead, and sometimes life won’t allow us the time we need. Still, it is possible to determine if an extra grain or two will compensate for any loss of velocity in the cold. Group size is determined by the load’s pressure/velocity and may be different in the cold and the hot.

BTW a 90 grain load will empty a pound can in 78 tips. That’s a really big case .338.




.

My math was off since the load is only 78 grains.

And the next month will be similar temps to October/November. Our lows have been in the 20s or lower for the last 5 weeks, but they are promising low 50s as highs this coming week.

I’ve done the July/August load development game a couple of times. In this country the wind blows most days so it to the range early, get a couple groups down range, then shut it down because the wind starts blowing, frustrating!

 

[Show Me]

Depends. 4 inches at 600 yards is awesome. What stops you from testing that load on a calm cold day. Do you hunt at that distance.

 

[blue32]

No experience with exactly what the OP listed but I happily went through 8 lbs of IMR 4166 in early 2015. I don't think the Enduron powders are quite worth the markup for their supposed copper fouling reducing qualities but 4166 is as good or better than established powders. If temperature swings are the issue I think it would be worth a try, however, there are old standbys that fill that need and the question would be more towards availability than if it works.

 

[IALoder]

RL16 has been awesome for me in 6.5 CM and .243. Great velocity, very accurate, and I just shot my 6.5CM load last week at 33°, and it only lost 2 fps from shooting the exact same load at 85°. It's giving me ~2815fps with a 140gr in 6.5 CM, with no pressure signs at all, and H4350 could only get to ~2740 before it was giving me pressure signs. I really like RL16. A lot.

RL23 I've shot a little with in 7mm Rem Mag with 160gr, charge weights are right in line with H4831, and velocity is very close to what I get with H1000. Supposedly it's a "temp stable RL22". So far I like it.

4451 was VERY similar to H4350 velocity and accuracy wise for me. My .243 loved it with 90-100gr bullets, accurate in my 6.5 CM, just couldn't get near the velocity of RL16.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Depends. 4 inches at 600 yards is awesome. What stops you from testing that load on a calm cold day. Do you hunt at that distance.

Not normally. But I killed a bull in Arizona the year after I got that gun over 603 yards. I ranged him at 603, then I couldn’t find him in the scope for about 10 seconds. His head was in the timber when he stopped. I held for 600. The height was good. The shot about 4” left. I was on a bi-pod but my right ass cheek was on a rock, my left ass cheek on my left boot. When I finally found him in the scope, I wasn’t going to shoot. Then the crosshairs looked so steady, I let it fly.

The bullet didn’t exit so there was no blood trail. If I had not had a partner to walk me to the exact spot he was when I hit him, I would have never recovered him.

The year before I shot a bedded buck at 443. I hit a couple of inches low and that Buck was able to eventually get outta his bed and I had to shoot him again.

Both those shots were in 15-25 degree weather. Elevation was less than 7,500 feet.

On the buck I feel the low hit was me. But never sure.

I’ve used that gun on coyotes a few times. Standing still, ranged, it’s never missed. My coyote hunting is usually in pretty cold weather, below freezing but usually above zero. I have missed my share of running ones though! Sometimes they get on me so quick it’s tough to even find them in the scope.

Never fails, if I grab the shotgun, they hold up outside range. If I stay in the scope, they get in my lap

 

[kalielkslayer]

RL16 has been awesome for me in 6.5 CM and .243. Great velocity, very accurate, and I just shot my 6.5CM load last week at 33°, and it only lost 2 fps from shooting the exact same load at 85°. It's giving me ~2815fps with a 140gr in 6.5 CM, with no pressure signs at all, and H4350 could only get to ~2740 before it was giving me pressure signs. I really like RL16. A lot.

RL23 I've shot a little with in 7mm Rem Mag with 160gr, charge weights are right in line with H4831, and velocity is very close to what I get with H1000. Supposedly it's a "temp stable RL22". So far I like it.

4451 was VERY similar to H4350 velocity and accuracy wise for me. My .243 loved it with 90-100gr bullets, accurate in my 6.5 CM, just couldn't get near the velocity of RL16.

Thank you!

What bullet weights did you use the RL16 with?

 

[Show Me]

A lot diff than sitting in a tree stand waiting for a deer to blunder by. In the woods a long shot is 70 yds. Longest shot in back is 310 yds. One example, my Henry long ranger.308, 4 inches at two hundred is a hard earned load. Factory,not in that gun.

 

[IALoder]

Thank you!

What bullet weights did you use the RL16 with?

140&147gr in 6.5 CM, and 90,95, and 100gr in .243. RL16 has been shooting very well with 90 & 95gr Nosler BT's in .243.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Thank you!

140&147gr in 6.5 CM, and 90,95, and 100gr in .243. RL16 has been shooting very well with 90 & 95gr Nosler BT's in .243.

Thanks!

My next project is to develop a load for my .243.

I have a ladder of 3 different powders I need to take to the range, but that was before I picked up the 16.

They are all 80 grain Barnes TTSXs. I live in California and wanted to develop a load for California that was “non-toxic” first.

But I purchased I think 9 different bullets, from 65 grains through 105 to tinker with.

And I do most of my coyote hunting in Nevada and will probably never pull the trigger if that gun in California except at the range.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

H414 has been discontinued I’m guessing since I haven’t seen that in a few years.

Dang shame we ain't closer. I have a few pounds of H414 I'll never use. I'd be happy to trade it for something else.

Damn near anything else...

 

[Bcwitt]

Back in the day, when a production lot didn't meet standard, they reprocessed it. Today, they package it & give it another label. Perhaps another brand. I stick to the old standards for that reason. I don't need to buy their mistakes for full price.

 

[AJC1]

Back in the day, when a production lot didn't meet standard, they reprocessed it. Today, they package it & give it another label. Perhaps another brand. I stick to the old standards for that reason. I don't need to buy their mistakes for full price.

I think each and every container of powder should have the closed bomb burn rate near the batch number. This would tell you exactly how this batch compares to your last. It would also make the burn rate chart accurate and useful.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Dang shame we ain't closer. I have a few pounds of H414 I'll never use. I'd be happy to trade it for something else.

Damn near anything else...

I have 3,000 LPP I’ll never use.

Where are you located?

I have some other stuff I’d be willing to trade. But stuff I could possibly have a use for.

But I don’t have the .45 anymore so those LPPs are just taking up space.