New AR 15 how wet ?

[RetiredUSNChief]

I will readily admit that I am no engineer, nor have I had courses in engineering, and I would not doubt that in the most technically correct meaning of the words, a DI AR actually operates via a piston concept. However, the marketplace and the accepted terminology of thousands of consumers would prove that people accept the term DI and use it as an understood classification of a firearm that differentiates common semiautomatic weapons.

And their words might not be 100% technically accurate, but they do mean something in terms of information transfer...the root purpose of language.

I'm pretty new to the AR-15 community in an indirect way, having bought my wife an M&P-15 Sport. I appreciate technically correct terminology and really don't go much for what some might call "commonly accepted terminology".

Words do have meaning...and most words indeed have multiple meanings. Technically correct meanings are important for accurately discussing technical aspects. Less technical meanings are fine in their place...like marketing or whatnot.

This isn't marketing. The technical accurate details go a long way in explaining to people like me and my wife how things actually work, and in this thread, how lubrication should be approached.

 

[DougW]

Just finished my 21st build. From experience I always run the new rifles dripping wet for the first 100 rounds or so. Then normal lube. My current 5 rifles are 100% reliable.

The only time I have had a problem was running a new build at a normal lube level.

 

[wally]

No one has been able to explain to me the benefit of never cleaning a gun.

Never is unrealistic, but I'd think it obvious that less time cleaning means more time for shooting, reloading, and other pleasures of life.

Except for when I shoot corrosive ammo I just do the minimum so I don't have to worry about them rusting in the safe -- wipe down and a bore snake is about all they get unless I have a problem or decide to swap out parts.

 

[cdk8]

I think the point of "too wet" or too much lube is reached when the lubricant rapidly accelerates the speed in which fouling occurs, ultimate reaching a point where the gun is so caked up with gunk that this buildup may interfere with normal operation. I've found that some lubricants perform very poorly in cold weather, and excessive lubrication in some cases could contribute to more frequent malfunctions in that weather.

I think "not wet enough" or not enough lube occurs when the product fails to provide ample lubrication needed for reliable operation, or fails to reduce friction, over time resulting in accelerated metal-on-metal wear. I've seen this happen when not enough lubricant is applied, a crappy lubricant is used [ex: Militec-1]), and a lubricant is used that is not well suited to withstand the high heat (and rapidly breaks down.)

I use this stuff and thus far am yet to come across a product I feel is as good. It is the driest grease product I have ever used, and it dramatically reduces fouling compared to other greases and wet lubricants, yet it gives better lubrication than many other greases and does a much better job at holding up to extremely high heat over a prolonged period. Yet, it also provides outstanding lubrication in very cold-cold, where as some other lubricants I have used caused these firearms to have malfunctions in extremely cold weather. After I clean a gun, I treat most with this grease and it provides me optimal lubrication for multiple range outings and thousands of rounds before needing reapplication. Thanks to the very slow fouling, this grease also reduces the frequency in which I need to clean many firearms. YMMV.
http://www.amazon.com/Finish-Line-Extreme-Fluoro-Syringe/dp/B002L5UL92

 

[herrwalther]

An AR can be too wet. When you fire the weapon and lube splashes in your face, you might have put too much. Especially for left handed shooters.

I've seen this happen when not enough lubricant is applied, a crappy lubricant is used [ex: Militec-1]), and a lubricant is used that is not well suited to withstand the high heat (and rapidly breaks down

Not to get into a lube war but Militec-1 is not crappy lubricant. In my last field op as a team leader I brought a bottle of Militec with me. We were doing long stints of shooting blanks, switching to live for sometimes 1000 rounds and going back to blanks. The rifle barrels were just barely allowed to cool down, let alone clean. Add on the risk of rust as there was a tropical storm in the area that had stints of dumping rain while on the line. My fire team used my Militec on the M249s first and the M4s, no malfunctions. Other teams were coming off with extra ammo that wasn't expended in the time limit. Their weapons were cleaned with standard issue CLP. Militec is not a crappy lube.

 

[NWcityguy2]

What kind of lubrication a gun needs is dependent on how the gun is being shot. It has been my experience that for ARs, in general, just need some kind of semi-thick oil as long as they aren't being shot suppressed. The thin stuff out of the spray can doesn't stick around very long and the fancy lubricants don't enhance the function of the rifle.

 

[cdk8]

An AR can be too wet. When you fire the weapon and lube splashes in your face, you might have put too much. Especially for left handed shooters.



Not to get into a lube war but Militec-1 is not crappy lubricant. In my last field op as a team leader I brought a bottle of Militec with me. We were doing long stints of shooting blanks, switching to live for sometimes 1000 rounds and going back to blanks. The rifle barrels were just barely allowed to cool down, let alone clean. Add on the risk of rust as there was a tropical storm in the area that had stints of dumping rain while on the line. My fire team used my Militec on the M249s first and the M4s, no malfunctions. Other teams were coming off with extra ammo that wasn't expended in the time limit. Their weapons were cleaned with standard issue CLP. Militec is not a crappy lube.

Respectfully, I disagree 100%. I should probably note that this is all my opinion.

Compared to other modern lubricants, I have found that Militec provides so/so wear protection, so/so thermal stability, abysmal rust protection, and it is quite expensive. Some experts on BITOG have criticized the company for advertising their product as "non-toxic" and "non-hazardous" because of what happens when thermal breakdown occurs (specifically, the release of carbon oxides and hydrogen chloride gas).

My own personal usage and testing of Militec has had the same outcome with most of the other rust tests of others. The Maker has responded to some of these tests saying that the reason Militec performed poorly was because the lube needs to be heated in order to work properly and it was applied improperly. Virtually no other product has this requirement, including other oils advertised as "dry lubricants." Even when applied with heat, the outcome is pretty straightforward:


http://www.6mmbr.com/corrosiontest.html
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/993968-a-little-rust-prevention-test
http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667

Militec failed most DOD testing and this is why at one point the product was labeled as, "Not Approved by DOD ...as... Small Arms Lubricant..." Militec has appealed this ruling with the assertion that they did not receive fair treatment, but the reasons why it failed are listed and, at least with my usage, I have observed first hand. After reading that document and the MSDS, I started using other products.
https://books.google.com/books?id=s...s=viewport&dq=militec+banned&output=html_text

 

[herrwalther]

Respectfully, I disagree 100%. I should probably note that this is all my opinion.

And that is fine. Nothing wrong with differing opinions in a currently free society. My personal field experience with Militec is it is better than CLP in some applications. Not all. Which is why I carried quantities of both in my field cleaning kit. I cut my teeth in a cold weather unit. It was there I was given the Militec by my squad leader. Standard issue CLP can get slushy or even freeze at the temperatures we trained in, especially on the crew served weapons.

As far as the DoD labeling goes. That is another level of bitterness. Many soldiers who don't like CLP (and there are tons) will go out and buy something they like to use better. There is nothing in Army or DoD doctrine that says we must use the issued CLP. For that I am thankful because military procurement likes to award contracts to the lowest cost. CLP is okay for general use. The best solution is a dedicated solvent, lubricant, and protectant for storage. But that costs more money.

 

[gotigers]

"wet" is subjective.

I clean between 3 gun matches, which is usually about every 150-250 rounds depending on the match round count and with practice.

Most of the AR is just very damp with oil, but the BCG will have a bit more. The BCG will have enough to see a good film, but not visibly drooling once reassembled.

I use Hopps and spray non-chlorinated brake cleaner for cleaning. CLP for lube. Those three is all I've ever used. I've never seen corrosion on any of my ARs.

 

[swopjan]

I don't know how much you're shooting it but on range weeks I used to squirt CLP from a spray bottle into the ejection port once or twice every morning, send the bolt home and give the bolt a squirt too, then rack the bolt a few times. Each day's shooting was only about a hundred rounds, so we'll say I gave it two squirts every hundred rounds whether it needed it or not, and in the course of four years, three rifles and 2,000 rounds total I had exactly one failure to feed and no other stoppages. A little goes a long way, it would seem.

Circumstances dictate, as herrwalther pointed out about CLP in cold weather, but you'll figure out what works for you and your rifle easily enough.