New ATF regulation forces CCW holders to submit NICS check When purchasing guns.

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jsalcedo

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ATF rule change draws fire
By GINA B. GOOD
PVT



GINA B. GOOD / PVT
Robby Brentlinger, gunsmith and co-owner of The Master At Arms gun shop, examines a Scout bolt-action rifle he's working on for a customer at his newly remodeled store on Thousandaire Boulevard.


Buying a gun just got more expensive for what many in the firearms industry call "the good guys" - gun owners who have purchased a license and registered their fingerprints in a federal database.

Last week, Nevada gun owners with a carry concealed weapon (CCW) permit issued by the state could buy a firearm without paying for an additional background check.

However, as of Sunday, permit holders must pay the additional $25 fee for a background check each time they purchase a firearm - just like non-permitted purchasers.

Firearms dealers received a last minute notice issued by The U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) less than a week before the deadline. The change does not sit well with individual permit holders - who were not notified in advance.

"My customers are already bitching up a storm," said Robby Brentlinger, who owns The Master At Arms gun shop in southern Pahrump. "It's not the background check they care about. They think it costs too much."

Nye County residents who want to carry firearms in concealment - say by wearing a shirt to cover a holster on their belt or with a specialized holster made to fit inside their waistband - pay $105 to the Nye County Sheriffs Office for a five-year permit.

According to Assistant Sheriff Rick Marshall, that amount breaks down to $45 to the state for fingerprinting, with the remaining $60 paid to the Sheriff's Office for a background investigation.

Every five years, Nevadans holding permits repeat the process, including paying the fees. Part of the deal has been that a permit holder was exempt from submitting to an instant background check when purchasing additional firearms.

In a report published in the Las Vegas Review-Journal on Saturday, an audit found that sheriff's departments in Nevada were not performing federally required annual updates on permit holders. Frank Adams, executive director of the Nevada Sheriffs and Chiefs Association, said law enforcement lacks the staff to perform the updates.

However, Marshall points out that Nye County has not done annual updates because they are not required under Nevada Revised Statute 202.366, which deals with issuance or denial of Nevada's concealed firearm permit.

While Adams said the background check could be done in a matter of minutes, gun shop owners disagree. They say telephone calls to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) can take from five to 35 minutes on hold before an operator answers.

"The people at the NICS service center are extremely nice and have always been fantastic," said Brentlinger at his newly remodeled store, located at 2391 E. Thousandaire Blvd. I'm sure they are understaffed because they take care of the whole state. Once I get through, it normally takes under five minutes for me to give the information to the operator and get a 'proceed' or 'denial.' "

An employee at another Pahrump store said, "You can always tell when there's a gun show going on because it's almost impossible to get through to NICS." He, too, commented on the impressive service given by the three service center employees he deals with on a daily basis.

"My regular customers feel like this is a slap in the face," Brentlinger said. "They are regular, upstanding citizens. The last study I saw said 99 percent of all firearms were used legally. The everyday citizens feel their rights are being infringed upon because they haven't done anything wrong, yet it feels like the government is punishing them."

While the change in the rules only means CCW holders will be treated like everyone else, Brentlinger indicated that wasn't the point. "People are angry about it, but in the long run they know it's the cost of having what they want. They have a choice. It's the lower income person who wants a gun for self-protection who is hurt the most by this. It adds another cost to their ability to protect themselves."

People who pawn guns also must pay for background checks when they retrieve their property. One man said he had a dozen firearms in a Pahrump pawnshop. He is allowed to retrieve three guns at a time by paying one $25 background check fee. However, because quality handguns cost several hundred dollars, a more likely scenario is that he will end up retrieving each gun individually - at a total added expense of $600.

In Nevada, regulations on purchasing firearms vary by county. In Nye County, there is no waiting period after passing the NICS background check. In Clark County, there is a three-day waiting period after purchasing a handgun unless the purchaser holds a permit. There is no waiting period when buying a rifle or shotgun.

Non-Nevada residents are also eligible to apply for a concealed carry permit. The county issues three-year permits to out-of-state visitors if they pass requirements.

Marshall said his office is taking a careful look at such individuals. "We have had a problem with some of the providers," he said, indicating instructors who give state-mandated classes and firearms proficiency tests that persons desiring a permit must pass. "We'll be checking carefully that people are applying for a permit listing the handgun they qualified with."

Private sales of firearms do not require a background check to be completed. "The government would like to stop gun sales between individuals," Brentlinger said. "They recommend that private sales are transferred through a licensed dealer who is required to call in for a background check under the law."

Brentlinger and his wife, Melissa, co-own The Master At Arms, which was formerly 23KPG. The newly remodeled and restocked shop is open from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. Tuesday through Saturday. The Brentlingers will be expanding the shop in the near future to include a classroom where conceal-carry classes will be held. A standard class will cost $85.


Is this just Nevada or is it everywhere?
 
Yes it is Bull. Does this apply to all states or just Nevada?

Aside from people with CCW I think having to do constint background checks is bull reguardless. Once you do I background check yo ushould get a printout or something you can take with you that is good for a year or someting so you don't have to do it over and over agian everytime you buy a gun.
 
Here in Texas they take CCW in lieu of a NICs check I'm wondering if this is no longer the case.
 
alaskas concealed handgun licensing department revised the permits, reissuing a new one to all permit holders, and those who paid the extra money and submitted prints for fbi background checks have printed on the face 'NICS Exempt'.
up here it is an option to be exempted from the NICS checks when purchasing a gun.

this type of thing is governed state by state.
 
when its painfully obvious that you have passed there shouldn't be a need for it. Hence why CCW holders shouldn't have to have a check each time. Or when you buy a gun you should get a printout of it to take with you next time you buy a weapon.

Its about the money, the increased call volume likly wont be enough to have to upgrade systems or hire many if any new people. But at 25 bucks a pop will raise revenue mesurably.
 
Why do they charge a $25 fee? NICS is free.


because they can

because people are willing to pay it

Before I moved here I never paid a 'fee' for a nics check. Come to think of it, I've never done so here either but it's because I have't found an FFL here in Las Vegas who had anything worth the $$ they wanted for it....I think the market here is way way overpriced - probably due to California influence....
 
because people are willing to pay it
It has nothing to do with willing to pay it, it has to do with not having much of a choice. It is either pay the 25 bucks or you don't get a gun. Sucks big time but either way they get what they want- You say screw it and don't buy a gun or they get to line their pockets with money and make it more expensive for you to buy a gun.

Next they will think up some crap for bullets too in an attempt to make it even more expensive to use a firearm.
 
I don't live in America, so I'm confused.

I'd imagine this varies by state, but do you have to submit to a background check for gun purchases in a shall-issue state?

If so, what has changed?

If not, what has changed?

How much is the new fee?

Does this affect all states, or just NV?

Etc. etc.

And to think, I was just debating someone on here about the ATF and trying to educate them on how they DO in fact have the power to "legislate" by creating their own regulations, which are in effect the same as the congress passing laws, only worse since the ATF thugs are unelected and unaccountable.

:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
 
This is definitely not an ATFE rule as the above news story reports because ATFE doesn't charge a fee to use NICS. This same policy is also not being applied in Texas and other states so it is obviously a state rule or regulation that is causing the change.
 
Definitely NOT national. I just bought another pistol here in MI and there was no fee for NICS. Even with a CPL we still have to go through NICS, just not the state's "permit to purchase". Must be some new way to steal money for NV.
PS- a CPL does NOT get you registered in a national fingerprint database(as the article states).
Josh
 
Derby FALs said:
Why do they charge a $25 fee? NICS is free.

It's an easy way for the State to make some $$$...quite discriminatory actually, I'd say it looked more like a "consumption" tax, but only applied to firearms purchases...

Just more hoops to dissuade ownership.
 
Sin Tax,as plain and simple as it is evil and malicious...

Pay me $25 and I will allow you the privelage of exercising your Constitutionally Protected, Second Ammendment Right...

Devious Bastids:cuss:...Atleast it ain't in Texas.
 
Bartholomew Roberts said:
This is definitely not an ATFE rule as the above news story reports because ATFE doesn't charge a fee to use NICS. This same policy is also not being applied in Texas and other states so it is obviously a state rule or regulation that is causing the change.


They said on the NRANews show "Cam and Company" that it had to do with how the Nevada LEO community processed updates to criminal records, and that they were not diligent in their system.

It was also mentioned that the $25 fee was charged to dealers by the Nevada crime statistics people
because they were broke too. Nevada should have money running in rivers from tax revenue you'd think.
Wonder where it all goes? All of a sudden it doesn't sound like a very 2A friendly state.

Other states have a faster system to update if a CCW holders criminal status changes. Nevada was given the chance to fix their system but said it was "too expensive".

So, this only impact them, and it sounds to me like people should be pissed at the State of Nevada and not the ATF in this case.
 
Well it sounds like since it is such a hassle to get through the NICS and everything in such a short period of time, they need to implement a waiting period so that way the dealers have plenty of time to hear back from NICS. Then no one will complain about being held up 5 or 10 minutes! :evil:
 
I've never had to pay a NICS fee in OK either. Customers would look at a gun store owner like he was crazy if he tried to charge another $25. And that's not the only high fee I noticed in the story. Who pays $45 for fingerprinting? I paid $25 and complained long and hard about that!

Aside from people with CCW I think having to do constint background checks is bull reguardless. Once you do I background check yo ushould get a printout or something you can take with you that is good for a year or someting so you don't have to do it over and over agian everytime you buy a gun.

"Something printed" wouldn't work because it is just too easy to print whatever you want on your computer today. But I've thought before that it would be easy to use the CCW's themselves for the background checks. Magnetic strip on the back. Gunstore or seller at gun show pushes the card through a mag strip reader just like a credit card. It dials, transmits information, gets a "yes or no" answer in 20 seconds. They can do it like that with a credit card for a $3000 purchase. Why not to buy a gun? Why does somebody have to get on a phone and read a form to another person? Something has always been wrong with that idea!

Gregg
 
Not an ATF Rules Change

Everyone always assumes that the ATF suddenly changed the rules. They didn't. This was a case of some Nevada sheriffs not complying with existing rules so they could save money.
 
This should be a heads up for the 'free state' cheerleaders who are always dissing CA, NJ, MA, etc. Your 'free state' is still part of the union and your gun rights can be curtailed by the fed gov at any time dontcha know.
 
This is the rule in Indiana because the Stae Police claim lack of manpower and time to do checks.But we don't pay an extra fee. The fee sounds like a state sponsered ripoff.
 
This time it looks like the state brought it on themselves.

However its really scary how the ATF can mess with gun owners by means of regulations
created by some faceless pocket nazi tucked away in DC.

If they wanted to they could make purchasing a gun very difficult and complicated.
 
This appears to be a state-by-state thing.
I have handgun carry permit but still have to pay $10.00
for a background check when I buy a gun.
I will check with my local dealer and get back.
 
I Wonder How Much The Criminals Have To Pay ?

Oh yeah, criminals get to use tthat $25 bucks towards the purchase of a better gun:uhoh: :rolleyes: ...
 
frenchie has it for us. ATFE determined that state po-po checks are insufficent. This being Indiana, "we've always done it that way, dammit, boy", General Assembly refuses to allocate denek to upgrade state po-po system (which would probably be used for new motorcycles or hats anywho).

Now to rally the boys and get this changed. *crickets chirping*
 
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