New baffle-less suppressor is it even a suppressor?

[Gun4Fun90]

So I was watching a video about a new 9mm AR barrel that is integrally suppressed but dose not use any baffles and is fully rifled all the way down. It seemed to blur the lines between a suppressed firearm and a firearm that is just not as loud to being with. So I was wondering when a suppressor becomes a suppressor.

For instance on average an AR with a 20 inch barrel is not as loud as one with a 16 inch barrel which is not as loud as one with a 10 inch barrel, but no one is saying a longer barrel counts as a suppressor. A lot of things about a firearms design affect how loud the report is so when dose it stop just being part of the firearms design and start being a suppressor?

According to the ATF’s website:

The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.

https://youtu.be/XLirwUHkbS8
Not that I would want to be the test case, but it was just an interesting question and food for thought. What do you all think? I think regardless the fact it’s being marketed as a suppressor means it will be treated as one whether or not it would be otherwise under the law. But what is the line? Any thoughts?

 

[PapaG]

Hastings, of shotgun fame, made a barrel extension of something like 36" out of aluminum to thread into choke tube threads. Overall length became about five feet. It was marketed to golf courses and parks as an "urban" barrel to shoot geese and other damaging animals. It was quiet.
I had a 34" 870 barrel that, with low velocity handloads, sounded to my neighbor, seventy-five drive yards away, like a pellet gun.
Ways to legally quiet down reports exist.
A buddy had a 40" Hastings barrel for an 870 and it was markedly quieter than my 30".
My 34" BT is quieter than a 26" skeet barrel with the same loads.
Not suppressors but quiet.
Just additional info.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

Hastings, of shotgun fame, made a barrel extension of something like 36" out of aluminum to thread into choke tube threads. Overall length became about five feet. It was marketed to golf courses and parks as an "urban" barrel to shoot geese and other damaging animals. It was quuet.
I had a 34" 870 barrel that, with low velocity handloads, sounded to my neighbor seventh drive yards away like a pellet gun.
Ways to legally quiet down reports exist.
A buddy had a 40" Hastings barrel for an 870 and it was markedly quieter than my 30".
My 34" BT is quieter than a 26" skeet barrel with the same loads.
Not suppressors but quiet.
Just additional info.

Exactly! I didn't know these specific examples but they are exactly the point I was making. other than the fact they are marketing it as a suppressor would this be considered a suppressor? I mean it is defiantly closer to the line than a barrel extension for a shotgun but on a scale of barrel to suppressor I would say it much more closely resembles a barrel.

 

[reddog81]

The barrel is a barrel and the tube around the barrel is the device that is the suppressor. They are 2 separate components.

 

[lemaymiami]

Pretty certain the manufacturer has the ability to request an opinion from ATF before bringing this to market. Anyone heard of any ruling or guidelines from ATF about this specific item?

 

[entropy]

The barrel is a barrel and the tube around the barrel is the device that is the suppressor. They are 2 separate components.

Wouldn't a Mauser '88 (or Rem. 8 or 81) be considered the same thing?

 

[reddog81]

Wouldn't a Mauser '88 (or Rem. 8 or 81) be considered the same thing?

I have no idea. Are the barrel shrouds designed to reduce the noise? Are the barrels ported to bleed off gasses into the shroud?

 

[Jim Watson]

Not unless the tube was made to trap gas from the muzzle or holes in the barrel.

 

[theotherwaldo]

It's my understanding that a plastic water bottle is a silencer if it is used to reduce the report of a firearm... .

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Gases do not vent into the Mauser 88 or Remington 8 barrel jacket. All the gas exits the muzzle. AND a Mauser 88 rifle is loud, guy at the club shot his in BP cartridge match.

I don't know what to make of the OP gadget. I get the impression the tube acts almost like a reverse bloop tube.

Besides a 2 liter soda bottle has no baffles but does count as a silencer if you are caught with one duct taped around a firearm muzzle.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

It's my understanding that a plastic water bottle is a silencer if it is used to reduce the report of a firearm... .

A pillow used as a silencer to reduce sound in a firearm homicide can result an additional federal enhancement charge.

 

[12Bravo20]

The ATF states that any device that is meant to silence, muffle, or diminish the report of a firearm is a silencer, to include parts.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firear...-firearms-gun-control-act-definition-silencer

So yes a barrel shroud that incloses the barrel to which the barrel is cut to vent hot gasses into the shroud is a suppressor.

A shroud the captors gas is no different than the XM177E2 moderator, which the ATF state is a suppressor since it muffles the report (still loud)

 

[SC45-70]

At about 3:16 in the video he says " If someone wants to pay the tax stamp they want to get something for it".
I'm sure it is a suppressor and will be sold as a suppressor on a form 4 the same as any other suppressor.
It will just being marketed as a suppressor without any baffles.
SC45-70

 

[jmorris]

So I was wondering when a suppressor becomes a suppressor.

When you send a sample to the NFA branch and they decide it is or when they think the product you are making is and decide to go after you (Google “solvent trap raid”).