New beheading thread

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Iraqis Shocked by Beheading, Despair Over Violence
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.
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Well, that's what so many people wanted. Not all Iraqis approve of the beheading, just like most rational people believed.
 
my quote:
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None of us know the command and control structure of this enemy. Who can say if this was planned and directed from the "top" or if it was an errant unsupervised group?
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Thumper's response:

You might be saying that tongue in cheek, but it's not clear. This is entrenched behavior among some groups in the region.

What I meant is: Are we dealing with one large cohesive organization directed from the top down (like Nazi Germany), or, is the enemy comprised of a group of warring "tribal chiefs" with sometimes conflicting strategies and goals (like Afghanistan)?
 
If it is not one cohesive organization that is more evidence it is not driven by religious zealotry, but a cultural anomaly of the Arab world. We need to find and exploit its weakness, rather than deferring to the religion it is hiding behind. We need to publicly emphasize these terrorist/tyrants/killers are NOT Moslems, and we need the help of the world Moslem community to do it.
 
and even though the quality is horrible, it is an EXTREMELY powerful, and atrocious video. I didn't even know what to feel after I watched it. Crazy stuff...

Perhaps that's why all the networks, who showed some pix of some naked guys and a guy with underwear on his head which sooooo outraged everyone, were sooooo considerate of our sensitivities that "of course we won't show the beheading".
 
They need to know that death can come for them at any time.

I think most of them have lived with that knowledge all of their lives...That's the real world they're in 24/7...It's our wake-up, not the other way around...

It's always been a terrible world, just put on hold for most of us ....

...No one should have to live that way...
 
I just watched that horrible video....if those so-called people want to make me hate them, then they've succeeded.

I, for one, will not forget this young man or September 11.....:(
 
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Most Baghdad residents on Wednesday condemned al Qaeda's beheading of a U.S. civilian in Iraq, but many said his death was just the latest atrocity in a cycle of violence that is driving them to despair.
(continues)


Well, that's what so many people wanted. Not all Iraqis approve of the beheading, just like most rational people believed.


The "cycle of violence" is a catch prase well-recognized in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which usually is code for the notion that actions taken in defense of the innocent are morally equivalent to cold-blooded and brutal murder of the innocent.
 
If it is not one cohesive organization that is more evidence it is not driven by religious zealotry, but a cultural anomaly of the Arab world. We need to find and exploit its weakness, rather than deferring to the religion it is hiding behind. We need to publicly emphasize these terrorist/tyrants/killers are NOT Moslems, and we need the help of the world Moslem community to do it.
Terrrorist organizations learned a long time ago that having a top heavy central command structure was impossible to maintain. They disperse and compartmentalize the organization so that catching one leader doesn't compromise the the whole, or even greatly effect it. People have to understand that with an organization of this type, the only way to kill it is to kill the members. They won't be dissuaded, or reasoned with or deprogrammed. And as long as they're out there, a couple of them is enough to form a cell and commit a terrorist act.

Religion is a part of it because religious fervor is what creates the foot soldiers. Men with an inadequate grasp of their own Scriptures and a discontent over their life. If the US has failed anywhere over the last 50 years it was in supporting repressive regimes in the MidEast that suppressed any expression or freedom outside of the mosque. Western history has the same parallel; during the middle ages, if you weren't born into nobility the only place where you had any measure of intelletual freedom was the Church, and so the Church became a center or learning and knowledge, and controled that portion of the populace that the crown couldn't control by force through religion. When the knights got rambunctious, the priest concieved of chivalry. When there were too many knights, they were sent off on Crusades - better to have them a continent away killing infidels than running around Europe armed and hungry. Oil princes made the same deal, they gave imam's freedom in exchange for their promise to help them control the people they oppressed. Unfortunately, this ain't the 16th century, and so there was not gradual shift toward Reformation and Renaissance. It's too easy for those people to see they're living in a sh'thole compared to the rest of the world. Which is a hard concept to square witha belief that you're God's chosen. And then some guy comes along and tells you that the reason is you, personally, have been picked by God to help correct that. That, that makes sense. Everyone knows that they were born to greatness. And that's how they recruit. You want to meet the most cynical, amoral, nonbelieving person on the planet? Talk to Osama. Religion is purely a tool, a means to an end for him.

So what has to happen is the hard cynical core, the ones who know the con, those guys need to die. And Islam needs a moderating movement, that pushes down to the lay believer the idea that violence isn't acceptable (as Christianity has moderated it's view on the use of violence). Arab countries need more opportunities for creative energies to be channeled into productive areas. And Arabs in general need more freedom and prosperity. One tends to mind it more when your neighbor's activities will get your house bombed if one actually owns the house.
 
I also just watched the video and I can't even begin to imagine what that poor soul must have been feeling while he was able to.

While watching I went through the whole gambet of emotions. Anger, disbelief, sadness, outrage. Anger and outrage have pretty much taken over at this point. I have a feeling for Revenge so bad I can taste it. But as posted previously, who should this feeling of revenge be applied against?

It's easy for some people here at home to say we are doing wrong over there as they sit on their couch eating take out. Last week my state's senetor, Kennedy, called the pictures of prisoner abuse in Iraq an attrosity. If those pictures were an attrocity, then I wonder what he thinks of this video.

I for one believe we are doing the right thing. Wiping out this type of thinking is the right course.
 
I see this incident backfiring badly on the supposed al-Qaida message. It has strengthened our resolve more than anything and at a time when that resolve was very much in question.

I see a couple things that will result in the aftermath, and some were already in motion for various reasons.

1) Civilians and contractors need to get the heck out of there.

2) People will understand that al-Qaida is indeed part of the Iraq picture, although direct involvement by other countries may be hiding behind al-Qaida, an enemy with no country upon which to retaliate or hold accountable with clear justification.

3) Taliban = Radical Muslim = al-Qaida = jihad, when it comes to response. Who cares where they are from.

4) Any country which accepts the presence of terrorists or their like is accountable. If they do not actively attempt to get rid of them or ask for help, it's like GWB said..either they are with us or they are with the terrorists.

5) This would be happening in the US, if we allowed it.

6) The US will be in Iraq indefinitely if not permanently, just as Great Britain cannot extract themselves from Northern Ireland, and just as Colin Powell supposedly warned President Bush about the Iraq decision. You conquer it, you own it and all its problems, whether you intended to or not.

I have no problem with playing rough. I would have a problem with out of control troops or atrocities on our part.
 
Junyo is right, imho.

The guys participating in the terrorist cells are a whacked as the guys who were waiting for the spaceship that was hidden behind Hale-Bopp. "Heaven's Gate" The organizer is like the guy who gave them the order to self immolate. Can't reason with em, gotta squish em. All of em.
 
Why is this?

"They gave eight minutes of coverage of the prison scandal for every one minute of coverage of the beheading."

And why is this? Simple. Everytime the media hypes this pseudo outrage over harrassing murders, rapists, thieves, thugs and terrorists they get to pound one more nail in the coffin of American liberty.

Running a video reminding people who the real enemy and the enemy's enablers are is counterproductive in the war on liberty. Terrorist, etc. are really the military field arm of the crowd of b*st*rds we have right here in America attacking the BoR at every turn. I don't need to list them for you.

When we finally win this war on terror we will have to spend maybe a hundred years tracking down and killing the terrorist remnants. We are still, technically, chasing Nazis even though the few left are damn feeble. The Nazis will die out naturally if we miss the rock any are left hiding under. The terrorists, on the other hand, will keep being produced in hiding until the entire spore is burned out. During this time of hunting down terrorists, there should be an army of liberty loving citizens hunting down every terrorist enabler here in this country.

rr
 
So? Our pics showed some of their soldiers naked. That gives them a excuse to kill one of ours? We need to get real. We need to stop playing with these animals and start cleaning house. You can NOT reason with these animals. No amount of peace treaties, love, or kisses will solve this. I say pull the Iraqi civilians out, and lets turn Iraq into a giant K-Mart parking lot.

Only brute froce will solve this issue. Brute force is all these animals understand.

Might I suggest this?

t-b52.jpg
 
Why is this?

"They gave eight minutes of coverage of the prison scandal for every one minute of coverage of the beheading."

And why is this? Simple. Everytime the media hypes this pseudo outrage over harrassing murders, rapists, thieves, thugs and terrorists they get to pound one m
 
Brute force? I'm all for using it if any one of you calling for its use can explain specifically how it is to be applied, to whom it is to be applied, and how that will solve our problems in Iraq.
Mainly, I hear a lot of hollering for revenge.
 
junyo, thanks for the well thought out historical analysis. It leads me to believe that GWB is on the right track and that the invasion of Iraq was the best option. If we can't ignore them and can't protect ourselves from them, we need to take the battle to them-draw out the combatants and kill them. Remain in the area to dilute the festering problem by slowly changing the culture, if that is possible. If that is not possible it may result in the annihilation of much of the Arab world.
 
junyo, thanks for the well thought out historical analysis. It leads me to believe that GWB is on the right track and that the invasion of Iraq was the best option. If we can't ignore them and can't protect ourselves from them, we need to take the battle to them-draw out the combatants and kill them. Remain in the area to dilute the festering problem by slowly changing the culture, if that is possible. If that is not possible it may result in the annihilation of much of the Arab world.
 
junyo, thanks for the well thought out historical analysis. It leads me to believe that GWB is on the right track and that the invasion of Iraq was the best option. If we can't ignore them and can't protect ourselves from them, we need to take the battle to them-draw out the combatants and kill them. Remain in the area to dilute the festering problem by slowly changing the culture, if that is possible. If that is not possible it may result in the annihilation of much of the Arab world.
 
junyo, thanks for the well thought out historical analysis. It leads me to believe that GWB is on the right track and that the invasion of Iraq was the best option. If we can't ignore them and can't protect ourselves from them, we need to take the battle to them-draw out the combatants and kill them. Remain in the area to dilute the festering problem by slowly changing the culture, if that is possible. If that is not possible it may result in the annihilation of much of the Arab world.
 
Brute force? I'm all for using it if any one of you calling for its use can explain specifically how it is to be applied, to whom it is to be applied,

Not arguing for or against, but I think "brute force" really doesn't concern itself with such niceties.

Inherent in the definition, I think.
 
More information is emerging about Nick Berg. Apparently he was roaming around Iraq by himself looking for work If true, that would be like blue-eyed me roaming around Watts during the riots. Makes no sense.

I have no agenda to place blame, but when I first heard he was out there by his own accord, I couldn't believe it. There are better places to look for work than an insane warring coutry. While he of course, didn't deserve any harm to come to him, I would imagine he took into consideration at least some of the possible present risks.

Also, another thing I have been thinking about is that, if indeed this was retaliation for the prisoner abuse, I honestly hope that the few stupid troops that were involved in the incident take Mr. Berg's death to heart, and consider the posibility that their atrocious actions, even though thought of as benign at the time, were the main cause of his horrible death and suffering.

If it is fact a retaliation, I hope that smug bitch in the pictures, pointing, smiling, and giving a "thumbs up" feels plenty bad about what she has done. I hope she serves time, and I hope she serves it happily, for the fact that she didn't end up like Mr. Berg.

I realize that war is war, and it's not fair, and it's horrible and barbaric, but people need to take responsibility for their actions.

That's what I think.
 
I have no agenda to place blame, but when I first heard he was out there by his own accord, I couldn't believe it. There are better places to look for work than an insane warring coutry. While he of course, didn't deserve any harm to come to him, I would imagine he took into consideration at least some of the possible present risks.

He was a well-to-do individual working to help the Iraqi people rebuild their nation's infrastructure. He wasn't a hippie bum looking to pick vegetables or the like.
 
Faulting him for his own death while looking for work in Iraq is somewhat similar to saying that a woman's rape was her own fault because she shouldn't have walked the two blocks to the convenience store for a pack of cigs at 2300.

In other words, that is complete and utter crap.
 
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