New brass; anneal first or fire first?

[berettaprofessor]

Just got some new brass from Starline (224 Valkyrie). Should I anneal it before first loading and firing or should I anneal after the first time used? I do intend to size it and trim it on this first loading. I'm guessing I should anneal before working it the first time, but I would like an opinion from someone who is not guessing.

My purpose with this brass is not benchrest...I simply want to prolong brass life as much as possible and split necks are the cause of most of the 224 Valkyrie I'm tossing..previously annealed or not.

 

[243winxb]

but I would like an opinion from someone who is not guessing.

Starline-
Does one need to full-length size brass prior to loading?
Generally speaking, Starline cases require no resizing prior to loading. Due to variances in diameter of different bullet types, it is a good practice to size the case only as far down as the bullet seating depth. When full length sizing is required, it will be noted in the box with the brass. The only Starline cases requiring full length sizing prior to loading are the .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, and sometimes the .45 Colt(Depending on the bullet diameter to be used).

Buy a bushing die for longer case life. Skip annealing.

 

[peels]

I resized all my new Starline rifle brass, primarily because the case necks are sometimes dented and slightly out of round from the shipping and handling. I used a Lee full length die to do that. There was very little (if any) resizing of the brass body.

I did not anneal the new brass before resizing and loading as it should be properly annealed from the factory.

As for your split neck issues....I recommend checking your fired brass that is from your rifle to see if the neck size is excessively large after firing. That would indicate the chamber dimensions may be causing the brass to be overworked. It is also possible that the brass with split necks are too thin. If the starline brass have thicker case necks, it should be more durable with regards to neck splits. Annealing helps, but in my experience, it won't completely prevent case neck splits.

 

[AJC1]

That brass in particular I would not bother annealing. Unless your getting exceptional life compared to everyone else you will loose the primer pockets long before it really matters.

 

[berettaprofessor]

243winxb; Bushing die or Lee Collet Die? I have a collet die for the 224 Valkyrie, should I be using it when reloading fired cases? I don't have a bushing die and I don't turn necks....my understanding was that if I don't turn necks, a collet die is better than a bushing.

 

[rkittine]

I resize all virgin brass that I buy, but do not anneal until they have been fired at least once.

Bob

 

[berettaprofessor]

That brass in particular I would not bother annealing. Unless your getting exceptional life compared to everyone else you will loose the primer pockets long before it really matters.

Ive been getting 4-6 or more firings. Primer pockets are fine...I’m losing brass by neck splits.

 

[AJC1]

Ive been getting 4-6 or more firings. Primer pockets are fine...I’m losing brass by neck splits.

That's the first I have ever herd of that happening in that cartridge. They come annealed so unless there is major damage that needs fixing give them a go after the first firing.

 

[243winxb]

Lee Collet (neck) Die

Does not over size the necks. A good thing.
The press is what gets over worked, requiring more then 25 pound on the lever, 2 times, each brass. This puts 600 pounds on the ram. This may wear out the press, sooner then later. imo. Gives the operator a nice workout when loading 50 rounds.

A bushing can be used on factory brass that has not been neck turned. Depending on neck wall thickness, a Redding Type S die , with expander, can be use or not.

The fl S die can be used as a body die, when the decapping rod is removed. Then use the collet to size the necks.

Just bought the 243 Lee collet neck die set about a month ago. Loaded 10 rounds to test. Been using the Redding S fl bushing for years, more to my liking, so far. More testing is needed.

 

[243winxb]

neck splits.

Can be caused by over working the brass. Some times chemical can make brass brittle. Seen some PMC 223 brass not make a second loading, using standard dies. Bad brass from the factory. Cheap ammo may not get an extra annealing at the factory. Saves time & money.

When fired brass is sized down more then .008" brass is over worked. Annealing can help, if done correctly. Annealing is not easly done.IMO.

 

[whughett]

A rule of thumb I use. When bullets slip into fired case with out a little pressure it’s time to anneal. The mouth and shoulders have become work hardened. Annealing them softens the brass and returns it’s elasticity.

 

[Walkalong]

I resize all virgin brass that I buy, but do not anneal until they have been fired at least once.

Bob

There you go.

 

[Ru4real]

A rule of thumb I use. When bullets slip into fired case with out a little pressure it’s time to anneal. The mouth and shoulders have become work hardened. Annealing them softens the brass and returns it’s elasticity.

That’s a good, useful tip. Thanks!

 

[Walkalong]

A rule of thumb I use. When bullets slip into fired case with out a little pressure it’s time to anneal.

Depends on the neck diameter of the chamber, most standard chambers will let the brass open up enough even with spring back the bullet will slip in with no effort.

When the neck gets harder to size down without spring back and not having enough neck tension it's time. For me with .308 Lapua brass after three firings I was having to go to a smaller bushing, now I anneal each time, but not new brass.

 

[Blue68f100]

I've bought 224V from them in the past. All they say you need to is run a mandrel in the necks to remove any dents from shipping. No need to anneal till after firing.

 

[Bronco72]

Take the expander plug out of your sizing die, resize a case and then mike the neck ! You will find that you are sizing way small and then expanding with the plug. Then you are expanding again with seating the bullet ! Really working the brass. For me, I got a bushing die, determined what size bushing I wanted and bought one. Neck splitting dramatically deceased. Annealing would probably get me more than the six loads or so I get now. Way better than the 2 or 3 I got before.

 

[Demi-human]

The hardness of the brass can not be damaged in transit, like the concentricity of the necks. I don’t anneal until I’ve used them once first.

Your barrel could be larger in the throat, such that soft brass would be more long lived. A soft anneal in the beginning could help, but not as much as new or altered dies, as Bronco suggests. The brass should come plenty soft from Starline.

I was quite pleased with this lot of Valkyrie brass so far.

But I haven’t much mileage on them yet.

 

[243winxb]

Starting to midrange loads, with slow powder in 243 win , may not expand the necks on firing. The bullet will be snug in the fired brass. Annealing will make brass softer, allowing brass necks to expand at lower pressure from firing.

I have 243 brass, Win & Rem, with over 20 firing on them. The bushing sizes 1/2 of the neck. Less neck is work hardened.

The 223 brass is BHM , neck turned & loaded with a standard RCBS FL die. The neck turning removes the factory made donut at the neck shoulder junction. The expander easly pulls thru the lubed necks.

Brass tries to return to its original shape/springback after firing. I would guess its less the .001" ?

Like Walkalong, my neck turned brass was giving good bullet hold, till 1 day it didnt. Going 1 size smaller bushing, returned the good neck tension/bullet hold.

 

[hdwhit]

Just got some new brass from Starline (224 Valkyrie)....

Fire first.

 

[doubleh]

After splitting a very expensive case (to me at least) after sizing and expanding to load I resize my straight walled rifle cases. Bottle neck I just size and trim for the first firing.

 

[berettaprofessor]

I was quite pleased with this lot of Valkyrie brass so far.

I weighed the 100 cases of Starline 224 Valkyrie I received from Midwayusa this week and, remembering Demi-Human's photo above with 3 groups of cartridges, I was quite dismayed....until I realized after looking at his photo that those were groups that were 114, 115, and 116 grains. All 100 of the cases I received this week were within 1.0 grains, the vast majority within 0.4 grains.



So, now I don't feel quite so bad.

 

[Demi-human]

I was mostly curious, three grains spread over 250 is better than I can shoot!