Annealing pistol brass BEFORE first use?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Obturation

Obturation

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
3,991
Location
Northern illinois
Hey all,
i've been handloading a few years (38/357, 45-70, 45 colt/ 454 casull, 30-30, 338 lapua ). Ive mainly focused my attention in the 45-70, 357 mag and 454 casull loading the other calibers rarely. Being straight walled cases i haven't annealed anything. Ive had the occasional split case but generally dispose of my worst looking brass after cleaning.

I bought 500 new starline 454 cases in the fall to replace a couple hundred federal cases that had been loaded maybe 6 times give or take. I size and trim new brass and found maybe 15 out of the first 100 cases you really had to apply considerable force to the press lever to size. Didn't give it too much thought but did note it in my book. 360 wfn gc bullets loaded with h110 and a remington 7 1/2 primer (same load i've used in all other brass including starline cases that were bought as loaded ammunition) . After my next range trip i sorted my brass and noticed a couple split cases. Seperated them out , cleaned the brass and resized. Noticed the same thing, the cases that were hard to size the first time were obviously still hard to size. Im fairly sure the cases that split were of that group too.

My question is , should i anneal these ones? Should i anneal them all? it seems to not be a common practice to anneal pistol brass like this. Should i just reject these ones? They weigh the same as the cases that are easily sized so i dont think its a thickness issue. I dont think its a pressure issue either, no pressure signs, felt normal, hit to POA.

Thanks for the input.

20181026_204038.jpg
 
It is my understanding the manufacturer anneals the cases as needed during the manufacturing process and does a final annealing then polishing before shipping. I would not do it especially when bought from a go to tear maker like Starline.

I also would not stop using your Federal cases only because of a number. If they are not split and the primer pockets are still right I would shoot them until they fail. If they worry you use them as range brass only.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
also would not stop using your Federal cases only because of a number. If they are not split and the primer pockets are still right I would shoot them until they fail. If they worry you use them as range brass only.
Click to expand...

I am still using the federal brass but im not loading it up near the maximum. I haven't split a single one of those and pockets are still fine. My concern with them was with higher pressure loadings, in the 45k psi range and above. I dont know how many times you can load them like that. I have 357 cases im sure have been loaded 15 times or more.
 
I only thought you were going too stop using them because in your OP you said the Starline cases were to "replace" the Federal cases with 6 firings on them.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
I only thought you were going too stop using them because in your OP you said the Starline cases were to "replace" the Federal cases with 6 firings on them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, replace them in the role of being used in full power loadings. Now i use them with a 300 grain xtp or a 255 grain swc, loaded considerably lighter. I even do a case full of trailboss and a swc bullet sometimes. In a few different calibers.
 
So archangel , you say leave the cases alone - they should be a proper hardness because theyre new?
And troy you recomend annealing the case mouth but are somewhat concerned about overdoing it due to pressure of the cartridge.
I was hoping for some feedback from some other members and see what the vast response was. Is this a dumb question that i should know the answer to? All feedback is very much appreciated, i was just hoping for a bit more responses.
Thanks guys!
 
Rarely do I hear of anyone annealing straight handgun cases. That is usually done for bottleneck rifle cartridges for checking part. You rarely hear of annealing 45-70 cases, it's just not needed as much as with cases with a shoulder and limited neck contact.

Even if you do want to anneal handgun brass i see no reason whatsoever to do so with brand new brass. No company would send out NEW brass needing a process most reloaded are not set up to do. Resizing new cases that are dented up in shipping is one thing, annealing is completely different.
 
You can't (safely) anneal far enough down the case to help full-body splits. . . but you can stop over-sizing the body.

You can anneal to reduce mouth splits due to flaring and crimping. It's a value-of-time question.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
Rarely do I hear of anyone annealing straight handgun cases. That is usually done for bottleneck rifle cartridges for checking part. You rarely hear of annealing 45-70 cases, it's just not needed as much as with cases with a shoulder and limited neck contact.

Even if you do want to anneal handgun brass i see no reason whatsoever to do so with brand new brass. No company would send out NEW brass needing a process most reloaded are not set up to do. Resizing new cases that are dented up in shipping is one thing, annealing is completely different.
Click to expand...
I agree, never annealed any case honestly. I guess ill just carry on loading the stiff ones and dispose of them as they split. Jusr seems like something is odd with them. If the rest of the lot is that way ill have about 75 cases that are significantly harder than the rest. Oh well, ill run them and see. Should be hitting the range this weekend, ill mark them, shoot them and report back.
Thanks!
 
If the case manufacturer does his job correctly, cases should come to you already properly annealed. But sometimes the manufacturer doesn't get it quite right.

It's not handgun ammunition, but a lot of the 7.62x54R brass I had was not properly annealed. When full length resizing, I'd get cute little pleats on the shoulder. When forming 8x57 from 30-06, it helps considerably to anneal a little farther down the case.

I've had problems with .FC. 9mm cases splitting, and finally found an easy way to anneal them to a precise depth:



The eutectic salt medium melts at about 500 F. Very often, when using this method, I get a little ring of salt crust on the case, just at the top of the liquid, when I dip it. That's strong evidence that the rest of the case is not heated above that temperature.
 
I’m sorry, were the split cases from the old Federal batch that has been fired several times or the new Starline?
 
One comment I will make about sizing the 454 cases. I've started sizing in two steps with my 460 brass (which is just a longer 454 case). I use the carbide ring FCD die from Lee (with the crimp insert removed) to size all the way down. Then I use the normal sizing die, but only size the mouth of the case to approximately the bottom of where the seated bullet will be. This way I work the body of the brass a lot less than if I full-length size with the normal die. Don't know if this will help you with the brass splitting or not.
 
Wow, first loading with Starline? Yeah I'd deffo get in touch with them. I've had exactly the same type of splits with Magtech 30 carbine brass on second firing. Straight into the trash!
 
This same thing continues. I ended up just seperating out the stiff cases and figure it out later. Ordered 100 new starline cases from a different source i would have to assume different lot # (but can't confirm that) loaded up 50 with 28.5 grains of h110 (28.7 is max and listed at 48,500 cup - well in the safe range). Yep some of those cases were stiff to size (new) fired 50 of those rounds today. 1 split, suprised it wasn't more. Any insight besides starlines 454 brass is too hard? So virgin 454 brass , sized and trimmed, 28.5 grains h110, 300 grain xtp mag, rem. 7 1/2 primer, crimped heavy with lee FCD. No excessive recoil, noise or point of impact shift when case split. So signs of over pressure, all those charges were hand measured individually. Ill include pics, and a rear view of the rest of the fired cases in case im missing some thing here pressure wise. All case ejected easily, no damage to any other case. 20191110_203209.jpg 20191110_203132.jpg 20191110_203141.jpg
 
Oh to clarify resurecting this oldey. Starline was nice about it and told me to send any i thought were no good and they would replace them. Trouble is i keep 150 or so that i'm using and the rest are new and bagged so i could pick the 20 or so hard ones out but not worth sending them in, if i had 100 hard ones sure.
I have 400 cases that haven't been sized or taken out of the package so i don't know how many are too hard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

berettaprofessor
  • Locked
New brass; anneal first or fire first?
Replies
21
Views
2K
Demi-human
Demi-human
MCMXI
  • Locked
Anyone annealing pistol (straight walled) cases?
2
Replies
41
Views
6K
Col. Cornelius
C
1942farmall
Annealing Brass
Replies
2
Views
263
jmorris
jmorris
T
  • Locked
How many here anneal their 45 colt/454/460/480 etc... brass?
2
Replies
31
Views
2K
cheygriz
cheygriz
mongoose33
  • Locked
Q: New annealed LC .223 brass
Replies
1
Views
452
Walkalong
Walkalong
Back
Top