longeyes
member
Slowly but surely Moslems are wearing out their welcome in the West. A few more 9/11s and Madrids and a lot of minds will be changing.
New Breed of Islamic Warrior Is Emerging / WSJ
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You guys can't be serious. You would kick out EVERY middle-eastern decended person? I hope I read wrong or missed the joke. If not, that's about one of the most UN-American things I've heard in a while. I apologize for getting so fire up, but this is a nation of immigrants-you included. If anyone has dibbs on who gets to say who goes back, it's the Native Americans, and even they came over on a land bridge. Land of the Free- remember? We can't let fear be the sole dictator of actions gentlemen. That is the problem with today, that is why we live in the Age of Wimps: fear rules. "Guns kill people"-remember that hoowee? "let's get rid of all guns to save the children!", or how about "Let's do away with due-process" and the birth of the Patriot Act. It's this mentality that will have us living in a state of martial law, with a tyrannical overly-powerful government and us unarmed or dead if we speak out. All in the name of being safe. Just because we haven't figured it out yet doesn't mean we have to fall back to the same-ole strong arming to try to solve a problem that can't be solved with strong-arming. Well, that's a lie: Iguess it could, if every American that stayed here would be willing to let the Gov. have complete access to our lives. There's more that one way to win a war.
-Paco
-Paco
Yes I am serious, and yes, you read incorrectly.
I didn't say anything about kicking muslims out of America; I said that we should no longer allow them to immigrate into America.
However, all muslims and people from the countries I mentioned who are here on a temporary visa (including students and other similar) should be deported immediately.
If you aren't a full-fledged, legal US citizen, and you are from one of the countries I mentioned, you are OUTTA HERE.
I understand. My family immigrated here too.
The (rather gaping) difference is that they love this country and do not conspire to commit acts of terror against it, nor against anyone else.
I wish I could say the same for muslims.
Nope. We beat them. We kicked their butts and took their land.
Tough.
Life isn't fair. Cry me a river.
Go buy a waaaaaaaamburger and some french cries.
(Yes, I've been dying for the chance to use that line! 
)Further, I recall reading that indians do not believe that they really "own" land. If they don't "own" it, then we will be more than happy to.
Muslims? DrJones, you're helping to make this into what it shouldn't be allowed to become on our end: a religious war. Let them die for their God if that's what they believe, but we should do what needs to be done not because THESE terrorists are muslims, but because they are terrorists. Oklahoma city bombers: Christian. Let's deport any non card-carrying American Christian. Oh, wait, the bombers were American... As for terrorism, it's a funny word, can have all sorts of definitions. See, I think that the prisons of this country are full of home-land terrorists. They kill, rape, steal, and othewise chip away at the proud roots of this country. This country would stagnate awful quick if we started locking out our borders if this one race attacks us, or that other religion hurts us. Ofcourse, the main flaw in your argument would be that one can't possibly group all Muslims of the world as dangerous people, and we shouldn't let fear make us do that to save our bacon. It's the coward that lives in a vault. Hey, I live in NYC man, and I'm here to tell you that I feel as though there's a dang bullseye painted on my back sometimes and if there's gonna be another attack, it'll most likely be here. That being said, there's NO WAY, I'd ask the gov. to close out the borders to ANY legal folks. That path leads to a totalitarian state-martial law with all the trimmings. Let's stay American.
-Paco
-Paco
longeyes
member
The issue isn't closing the borders, it's CONTROLLING the borders--as every other nation of note already does. This is not about living in fear but rather rationally assessing the dangers we face and the source of those dangers, then taking proper action for self-defense. We don't OWE access to any foreigner. As for this country stagnating because we restrict immigration, that's a liberal myth; in any case, we ought to have the right to determine who comes and who stays, period.
This is not a religious war by our choosing. Radical Islam has declared it to be a religious war. And it's not about Muslims versus Christians, but about Reason versus Unreason. You can talk about past evils perpetrated by Christians, but the fact is, that's history you're talking about, not present tense. Even the Crusades, so often cited, did not occur in a vacuum; the Crusades were a response and I assume you know to what.
No one said ALL Muslims are bad people, but radical Muslims have certainly made blanket condemnations of all Christians, all Jews, and all Westerners, and their influence, unfortunately, extends far beyond the Middle East.
This is not a religious war by our choosing. Radical Islam has declared it to be a religious war. And it's not about Muslims versus Christians, but about Reason versus Unreason. You can talk about past evils perpetrated by Christians, but the fact is, that's history you're talking about, not present tense. Even the Crusades, so often cited, did not occur in a vacuum; the Crusades were a response and I assume you know to what.
No one said ALL Muslims are bad people, but radical Muslims have certainly made blanket condemnations of all Christians, all Jews, and all Westerners, and their influence, unfortunately, extends far beyond the Middle East.
Hey longeyes, long time no see!
I only sited the christian thing cause DrJones seemed to be making it into a religious thing, not you. Let him fight for himself. You and I seem to be more in tune as I read the responses here as well as in the other forum thread. It certainly should be about reason vs. unreason, and we should keep our approach that way. Controlling the borders would have been the FIRST and greatest thing I would have done if I was the Schrub: get us here state-side nice and safe, THEN go and seek some payback, not the other way around. I have a huge problem with illegal immigration and feel that every immigrant should come into this country with something to offer or a desire to contribute, not to take because we're the 'land of opportunity' READ: 'land-of-let-me-mooch-off-Americans'. I digress. I do think we don't owe it to foreiners to make it too easy to access our country but having said that, it's been our way for hundreds of years and IMHO is the reason we are the most powerful nation on earth and have the best toys, and lots of cutting edge inovation. See you on the wall!
I only sited the christian thing cause DrJones seemed to be making it into a religious thing, not you. Let him fight for himself. You and I seem to be more in tune as I read the responses here as well as in the other forum thread. It certainly should be about reason vs. unreason, and we should keep our approach that way. Controlling the borders would have been the FIRST and greatest thing I would have done if I was the Schrub: get us here state-side nice and safe, THEN go and seek some payback, not the other way around. I have a huge problem with illegal immigration and feel that every immigrant should come into this country with something to offer or a desire to contribute, not to take because we're the 'land of opportunity' READ: 'land-of-let-me-mooch-off-Americans'. I digress. I do think we don't owe it to foreiners to make it too easy to access our country but having said that, it's been our way for hundreds of years and IMHO is the reason we are the most powerful nation on earth and have the best toys, and lots of cutting edge inovation. See you on the wall!
Baron Holbach4
Member
Religion of Peace???
Terror is their method. Islam is their ideology.
Where would Islam be without terror? How could
today's terror exist without its ideological branch -- Islam?
Ever since its beginnings in the early 7th century,
Islam was ideologically driven by Mohammad and
his followers to achieve conquests by terror and war.
Forward it marched through the centuries, conquering the
Middle East, Rome's Eastern Empire, Northern Africa,
Spain, making large swaths into India, making inroads into France,
the Balkans, and barely failing to take Vienna
in the latter part of the 17th century.
Religion of peace?
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no2/wl-stoye.html
Terror is their method. Islam is their ideology.
Where would Islam be without terror? How could
today's terror exist without its ideological branch -- Islam?
Ever since its beginnings in the early 7th century,
Islam was ideologically driven by Mohammad and
his followers to achieve conquests by terror and war.
Forward it marched through the centuries, conquering the
Middle East, Rome's Eastern Empire, Northern Africa,
Spain, making large swaths into India, making inroads into France,
the Balkans, and barely failing to take Vienna
in the latter part of the 17th century.
Religion of peace?
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol2no2/wl-stoye.html
Courtesy of Islam- "A Religion of Peace"
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/pictures033104.html
Have a nice day, Paco
http://www.homestead.com/prosites-prs/pictures033104.html
Have a nice day, Paco
Hey Rileymc,
Here's your high-morality/hypocracy back at you.
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/img.js...=pictures+iraqi+children&page=2&filter=&site=
Have a nice day...
Here's your high-morality/hypocracy back at you.
http://aolsearch.aol.com/aol/img.js...=pictures+iraqi+children&page=2&filter=&site=
Have a nice day...
jsmith48
Member
I can't believe you are defending Islam. The crusades and the inquisition and whatever similar follies were simply done in the name of Christianity. Islam teaches that Jews and Christians are the offspring of pigs and monkeys. All muslims fully support terrorism. Their version of the red cross funds families of suicide bombers. By referencing the Bible I am assuming you have read it in it, and if so you need to re-read it. Nowhere does it advocate anything less than peace.
You need to re-evaluate your arguments, Paco.
You need to re-evaluate your arguments, Paco.
Brian Dale
Member
This looks like a marvelous opportunity to remind everyone not to feed the trolls...
Oh—Hi, jsmith48. Welcome. Relax, read, review threads, and post what you like. Folks will respond, or they won't.
Oh—Hi, jsmith48. Welcome. Relax, read, review threads, and post what you like. Folks will respond, or they won't.
Something that occured to me ...
When the Second World War broke out, Japanese-Americans were interned in concentration camps. Even then, to prove that they were American, they volunteered to serve in the military. They did not betray their country, even though the nation betrayed them.
I wonder what the response of Arab-Americans after 9/11 was. I don't recall them being rounded up and thrown into prison. A few undeserved hate crimes here and there, I think. I was mostly pulling serious redeye guard shifts around that time, so no newspapers of tv for me for months. Is there anything to justify that American citizens who are Muslim are traitors not to be trusted, really?
I don't think we should as a nation just torch an entire religion or a race of people over something that happened centuries before and involved a completely different cast of characters. Staying in the here and now I think helps.
Remember 9/11 ... peace out.
When the Second World War broke out, Japanese-Americans were interned in concentration camps. Even then, to prove that they were American, they volunteered to serve in the military. They did not betray their country, even though the nation betrayed them.
I wonder what the response of Arab-Americans after 9/11 was. I don't recall them being rounded up and thrown into prison. A few undeserved hate crimes here and there, I think. I was mostly pulling serious redeye guard shifts around that time, so no newspapers of tv for me for months. Is there anything to justify that American citizens who are Muslim are traitors not to be trusted, really?
I don't think we should as a nation just torch an entire religion or a race of people over something that happened centuries before and involved a completely different cast of characters. Staying in the here and now I think helps.
Remember 9/11 ... peace out.
How am I being troll because I post something that doesn't perfectly mesh with you and how in the name of wonder am I blindly supporting Islam. Trolling? Wow... When someone says that a whole religion is a religion of terrorists or supporters of such: that sounds like troll talk to me. All I'm saying, all I've ever said, is that we gotta calm down a bit and not make sweeping calls because it's convenienent or easy or because it fits your personal religious beliefs. I think the terrorists are murderers and should be treated as such, but to blame ALL of Islam???
-paco
-paco
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jsmith,
Have you read the 7 pillars of Islam? Do you readily read the Old Testament? The Old testament is FULL of self-entitlement and elitetism. Look, I'm a staunch God fear Christian and it's exactly that I a believer in the teaching of Christ, that even in the face of appalling brutality, I try, and try hard to stay in control and not let my emotions get the better of me. I will defend myself if I must but I certainly don't condemn whole religions.
-paco
Have you read the 7 pillars of Islam? Do you readily read the Old Testament? The Old testament is FULL of self-entitlement and elitetism. Look, I'm a staunch God fear Christian and it's exactly that I a believer in the teaching of Christ, that even in the face of appalling brutality, I try, and try hard to stay in control and not let my emotions get the better of me. I will defend myself if I must but I certainly don't condemn whole religions.
-paco
jsmith48
Member
Thanks for the welcome.
Anyway, I think we are all on the same page. No, we shouldn't torch their whole religion, that is absurd. What they need to do is look at someone like Mansur Ijaz for leadership. He is an example of a Muslim (and a Democrat!?) that I do respect.
Anyway, I think we are all on the same page. No, we shouldn't torch their whole religion, that is absurd. What they need to do is look at someone like Mansur Ijaz for leadership. He is an example of a Muslim (and a Democrat!?) that I do respect.
Welcome Jsmith48,
I'm pretty new here have being reading THR stuff for a couple of years or at least after TFL went down... Most of the folk here are good-thinkers even if one doesn't agree with them. And somehow, for the most part, civility reigns here, unlike sooo many other forums. See you on the Highroad.
-paco
I'm pretty new here have being reading THR stuff for a couple of years or at least after TFL went down...
Most of the folk here are good-thinkers even if one doesn't agree with them. And somehow, for the most part, civility reigns here, unlike sooo many other forums. See you on the Highroad.-paco
hops
Member
Part of my reason for posting this is in starting a thought process in how we or a gov should deal with this. Problem here is that less than 10 pct of a population group is the potential problem, while the other 90+ pct are just trying to live normal lives all humans want to.
So, what I see is that some folks here advocate punishing a whole population segment. Interesting. The same folks then scream about GOV.ORG punishing all firearms folks because of few idiots choose to use guns to kill people for the hell of it. Punishment like NICS checks, NFA 1934, GCA '68, the FOPA of '86, the AWB of '94, blah, blah and blah. I could give lots of more examples, but I think I've made my point.
Punish those who commit the act(s) - not those who merely are part of the same population group.
I also get a kick of those who rile on Anti-Semetic type statements and acts, but they seem to have no problem in making Anti-Islamic type statements or acts. It seems that we do indeed forget.
So, what I see is that some folks here advocate punishing a whole population segment. Interesting. The same folks then scream about GOV.ORG punishing all firearms folks because of few idiots choose to use guns to kill people for the hell of it. Punishment like NICS checks, NFA 1934, GCA '68, the FOPA of '86, the AWB of '94, blah, blah and blah. I could give lots of more examples, but I think I've made my point.
Punish those who commit the act(s) - not those who merely are part of the same population group.
I also get a kick of those who rile on Anti-Semetic type statements and acts, but they seem to have no problem in making Anti-Islamic type statements or acts. It seems that we do indeed forget.
jsmith48
Member
The High Road is my kinda place
Hops, Paco-
I think you are forgetting about how different cultures wage war.
The Western way of war is a brief, decisive, and violent clash that determines a clear winner. This is how we in America and some of Europe think. However, Islam aims for a global takeover through infiltration- France banned headscarves because they are trying to prevent the massive movement of muslims into their country. Within a decade there will be so many muslims that they will be able to sway elections towards their idea of a theocracy. This has already happend in Spain. They tried to do it in Israel also. And they will try to do it in the US over the next 100 years. In the meantime, lookout for suicide bombings and other acts of terror prior to the november elections here. They have been reaffirmed by Spain that their techniques work. Remember that Islam means submit- their goal is to get you to submit no matter what the cost. Paco, I have done a great deal of research on Islam. I can IM you a plethora of information if you want. And to edit my last post: Mansur= Mansoor
Its not just Islam that fights a different type of war. One of my professors was fond of reminding my Humanties class that the Japanese have never stopped fighting us. The Japanese, however, have decided to battle us through business- how many Japanese cars do you see on the road everyday? Electronics? etc. As a result, they have become a world leader in many different fields (robotics, as one example).
I think that occupying two muslim countries was a good response to 9/11. That is exactly what they didn't want. As long as we continue an aggressive campaign against the fanatics, and avoid any type of compromise or appeasment, we will stay relatively safe.
Just don't forget how other cultures wage war. You have to know your enemy before you can defeat him. 10% of a religion may be fanatical, but it is backed by the other 90%. They may look like they want peace, but they really don't mind having us slaughtered (There are some exceptions, but few muslims truly desire peace, Mansoor is an example. He is hated by Muslims around the world). No suicide bombing against any Jew or Christian has ever been condemned by Muslims. They only denounce the attack if it harms other muslims .
Hops, Paco-
I think you are forgetting about how different cultures wage war.
The Western way of war is a brief, decisive, and violent clash that determines a clear winner. This is how we in America and some of Europe think. However, Islam aims for a global takeover through infiltration- France banned headscarves because they are trying to prevent the massive movement of muslims into their country. Within a decade there will be so many muslims that they will be able to sway elections towards their idea of a theocracy. This has already happend in Spain. They tried to do it in Israel also. And they will try to do it in the US over the next 100 years. In the meantime, lookout for suicide bombings and other acts of terror prior to the november elections here. They have been reaffirmed by Spain that their techniques work. Remember that Islam means submit- their goal is to get you to submit no matter what the cost. Paco, I have done a great deal of research on Islam. I can IM you a plethora of information if you want. And to edit my last post: Mansur= Mansoor
Its not just Islam that fights a different type of war. One of my professors was fond of reminding my Humanties class that the Japanese have never stopped fighting us. The Japanese, however, have decided to battle us through business- how many Japanese cars do you see on the road everyday? Electronics? etc. As a result, they have become a world leader in many different fields (robotics, as one example).
I think that occupying two muslim countries was a good response to 9/11. That is exactly what they didn't want. As long as we continue an aggressive campaign against the fanatics, and avoid any type of compromise or appeasment, we will stay relatively safe.
Just don't forget how other cultures wage war. You have to know your enemy before you can defeat him. 10% of a religion may be fanatical, but it is backed by the other 90%. They may look like they want peace, but they really don't mind having us slaughtered (There are some exceptions, but few muslims truly desire peace, Mansoor is an example. He is hated by Muslims around the world). No suicide bombing against any Jew or Christian has ever been condemned by Muslims. They only denounce the attack if it harms other muslims .
longeyes
member
Of course, we are infiltrating them too. Our weapons are Britney, Jerry Springer, Howard Stern, flush toilets, depilators, and anything branded Kirkland. It's "submission" versus "freedom." Hard to say who'll win. Human beings like security and belief-systems; they also like easy living, "stuff," and being able to do what they want. How many Muslims will really be "Muslims" in fifty years? How many capitalists will really be "capitalists" at that point? If the biology labs aren't outlawed or destroyed, I wouldn't be placing any sure bets on mankind's course in fifty years.
Power comes out of the gunbarrel or the penis. I'd say we are on thin ice in projecting current demographic trends too far into the future, especially given man's violent history and the occasional mind-boggling natural catastrophe.
good point longeyes,
I think they fear our form of infiltration far more than we fear theirs. They know they'll lose this thing in a jiffy if we can get their young people to play some video games, drink some coke, have a little too much good food in the frig. and see some skin on women. I think you bring up a great way to help along thing in Iraq: instead a soldiers, we should be sending Ronald McDonald and Air Jordan! We are Borg: Resistance is Futile...
-pass the coke and chips,
paco
I think they fear our form of infiltration far more than we fear theirs. They know they'll lose this thing in a jiffy if we can get their young people to play some video games, drink some coke, have a little too much good food in the frig. and see some skin on women. I think you bring up a great way to help along thing in Iraq: instead a soldiers, we should be sending Ronald McDonald and Air Jordan!
We are Borg: Resistance is Futile...-pass the coke and chips,
paco
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