New Chinese Firearms

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Aye... I think we may have. Enjoy that drink with my blessings and my thanks. :)


Let's leave this one to them to talk about the worth of the firearms on their own merit (which I think works well for me.)

Take care my friend!


-- John
 
Someone needs to start a company in this country and build semi- auto versions of those firearms without license.
 
You are right, John. Next time I am running to the hill when a thread gets political. It is strictly technical discussions for me from now on :D.
 
Well call the QBZ whatever you want, but it still suffers from all the
"problems" that bullpups face - love it or hate it, its a bullpup that does not sparkle with innovation.

More telling is a simple fact - despite all the effort in designing the QBZ and the 5.8 round, the Chinese still managed to half-ass it as design a cartridge that is still corrosive - they put all this effort in designing a modern cartridge and rifle and yet they still can't seem to figure out how that non-corrosive ammunition is the way to go...

Sorry to get off the topic of rifles but...

They have limits on childbearing, and people kill their baby girls. Therefore, they have an excess of tens of millions of young men.
Cute. Except for the fact that as you mentioned chinese cultures values boys, families are very protective of their only sons ("little emperors" as they are known in China because they are pampered to the extreme). Imagine sending your only son - you entire genetic line to get killed in a war. You would not be a happy camper, and neither would your average Chinese family.

For all you anti-china trade people out there - in my opinion, an isolated China is a more dangerous China. China is as dependent on the US as the US is on dependent on China - if we increase China's dependancy on the US through trade, wouldn't that better than trying to isolate it? Trade is a good thing, as CAT tractors, the american farmer, the american steel worker all realize now - while the US economy faces a recession, China's trade demands are keeping Americans prosperous.

I have lived in Asia for over 20 years and spent time working in China. I personally observed Chinese PLA units and I can tell you they have a lot of catching up to do. The unit I was with was driving around Korean War era trucks and had to cook their own meals using firewood and a cauldron. Most credible military experts think that China's military is around 20 years behind the US, and I don't doubt it for a minute. Even with double digit increases in defense spending, China's military spending still nothing compared to the US. Hell the Russians even aren't selling the Chinese anything these days, making it tougher for them to modernize.

China has so much to worry about with modernization - military modernization is just a small part. There are roads, hospitals, schools, power that all has to be built. Couple in rampant corruption, not all of China's resources are going to the military. China's military also has to get a whole lot smaller before it get stronger...

China is so weak in so many ways - this winter cities ran out of coal because of storms - this in a place that literally sits on coal!! Rising costs of food and fuel, infrastructure problems, rampant corruption, widespread poverty, AIDs epidemic running wild, restless minorities.

Ah yes, a worthy enemy indeed...
 
...it´s the old

"If the chinese get all their old and new planes in the air,
the birds will have go on foot."
...saying.

i guess it depends on how cheaply they copied.

The whole chinese tactic is a cheap knockoff.
But this world loves cheap. They´re doomed to win.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War.
Read up folks!:eek:
 
judging capabilities is more useful than guessing intentions,but who do they intend to fight?
 
Well take a look at their current doctrine, ie "limited local war under high tech conditions". Pretty much sums it up. China is in one of the most heavily militarized areas in the world with countries with massive militaries like Russia and North Korea and India, and top rate militaries like Japan, Taiwan and others like Pakistan, Mongolia (haven't had to worry about Genghis for a while though). You've also got Hajis in the west (Tajikistan and Afghanistan), those feisty Vietnamese to the south who know a thing or two about fighting.... Not to mention the people already in China who want out...

The one and only issue I believe that China is willing to fight the US over is Taiwan because it is such a deeply entrenched sore point for many Chinese.

China does not have the ability to project power past its border (non existent blue water fleet, poor land logistics, no long range air power, limited ICBM capability, etc) and doesn't seem to be procuring those capabilities at least at this time. China has always been a regional power, not a world power and it will take a lot before that changes...
 
China is rapidly modernizing their military. Don't believe their stated military budget; many analysts believe it is several times higher.

The QBZ bullpup is an interesting story. They spent lots developing it, but apparently the military wasn't satisfied with the results, hence the more conventional QBZ-03. The 5.8mm round is supposed to be very similar to our 5.56 NATO.

As for their current military power, their biggest problem is their lack of a blue-water Navy. They have no aircraft carrier (though they bought a derelict one from the Russians) and most of their surface vessels are smaller frigates. Their sub force is rapidly improving, but most of them are still old. What concerns me most navy-wise is that they seem to be putting lots of resources into their SSBNs, the big boomers with nuclear missiles.

Their air force has a few hundred modern planes coupled with lots of junk and their bombing force is 1950s-vintage. They have developed modern planes in-house, though it's taken them a long and rather tortured process to do so. Unfortunately, our buddies the Israelis sold them lots of the tech to do it :mad:. They're still a ways off from the USAF, though.

Their ground forces are pretty well-equipped, they've definitely seemed to influence the development of their army. This is probably where they are closest to the US military, though I'd still bet that our equipment and training are better.

As for their nuclear power projection, the US missile defense shield has already in theory neutralized their current ICBM force.
 
The QBZ bullpup is an interesting story. They spent lots developing it, but apparently the military wasn't satisfied with the results, hence the more conventional QBZ-03

Quite true. The QBZ95 is apparently going to be a special forces weapon whereas regular soldiers will get the Type 03.

qbz95 and type 03
03-95.jpg


With scope
03_e.jpg


jy1.jpg


sc5.jpg
 
Nice stripped photo of the QBZ-03. Appears to be very similar to an AK internally, though the gas piston appears different...
 
What I find interesting is their emphasis on grenades. Two different sizes of rifle-mounted launchers, plus a conventional rifle grenade? There's the potential to put a lot of firepower into a rifle squads' hands. Are they no longer using RPGs?

On the other hand, a bayonet on a bullpup rifle just seems WEIRD.
 
OMG, it has the shoulder thing that goes up!!!

I must admit, I laughed. :D

That should be the new thing to say around here.

"oh that's a sick AKS-74, I like how...wait, what the....IS THAT THE SHOULDER THING THAT GOES UP!!! OMG, THAT'S AWSOME!!"

lol
 
Mao said to prepare for Long March. LOL

Even Mao Pandas love the Type 56.

MaoPanda.jpg
[/IMG]
 
The ammo for the 5.8 chinese assault rifle was primarily designed to defeat U.S. style body armor. The Chinese raised their military spending budget last year over 17%. Last January they sucessfully test fired a new state of the art anti satellite missile. Is someone planning on attacking them, or are they planning on.... Surely not, why, look at all of the nice goodies for sale made by them in Wal-mart. They must be our friends, right???
 
it's a cold war situation in a sense. Ever big country wants to be a world power, and that is only possible if you are equipped well enough to be able to threaten a world power. The big difference here is that we and a good deal of other countries have a big lead on them technologically. I really dont think that they would actually plan on warring anyone though if they ascended to such a status; It's just that the need to join the rest of the modern world goes further than having the internet.

also, I dont think we should rag on Chinese guns. I mean, everything else they make works pretty well, so why wouldnt their guns? Fit and finish arent exactly a priority for any army. If they were, then there are alot of people who should be mad at the Russians for giving them AKs :(
 
I think the type 03 is a short-stroke gas piston like a LWRC or SVD. This should make it quite accurate.
 
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Would that include the Dog Treats that my youngest Jack Russell Terrier ate last August and has cost me to-date over $3,000 in medical bills? Yes... it DID end up on the Chinese recall list.

With the ridiculous amounts of foreign money flowing into China corruption and bribes are rampant. At the very least the guy got what was coming to him. They've sentenced the Chief Food Inspector to death for taking bribes and turning his back on companies who don't submit to health inspections.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/29/health/main2860989.shtml

White collar crimes should be taken seriously. Chevrolet executives needs to pay attention next time they make cars with brakes that don't work and then try to cover it up.
 
World War is reaching obsolescence, and will continue to do so unless something big changes.
Why?

The reason why total war (Napoleaonic wars, WWI, WWII) has ceased to occur in the past 60 years (which is shorter than the Pax Brittania that ruled between the fall of Napoleon and WWI, btw) is that we lived in an era of nuclear-armed superpowers that wanted to stare each other down and fight wars via proxy or in the post Soviet era with only one superpower. The first scenario prevents all-out wars because no one wants to be incinerated, and the second prevents all-out wars because no one wants to have their arse kicked in a one-sided matchup.

Who here thinks that the USA is going to remain the sole superpower forever (assuming that's even still the case)? What about the assumption that MAD still holds true to all comers? Remember, MAD assumes rationality and a desire to survive *cough*Iran's current leadership*cough*

Total war is not dead. It's just taking a break.

Mike
 
Is it just me, or does that Type 03 look tremendously like a copy of a 550-series SIG rifle? Stamped upper and lower push-pin receivers, rock-in mag with paddle release in front of trigger guard, side-folding stock, enclosed bolt, short-stroke piston operated... It's not as pretty as a SIG, nor probably as well made, but that speaks to me of a huge complement to SIG's design.
 
Is it just me, or does that Type 03 look tremendously like a copy of a 550-series SIG rifle?

Nah.....very different spec wise. And besides, the type 03 is short stroke operated, the SIG's are long stroke AK style.

Of course, firearms being a mature technology, all "new" rifles are looking alike. The AR15, XCR, SIG556, and Masada? They all look like each other too. :)
 
Looks like the type 03 has a few relevant improvements from the type 56:


-Separate gas piston and bolt carrier

-Upper/lower receiver arrangement, as opposed to a box with a sheet metal cover slapped onto it. More readily accept optics, and clearly supports a longer sight radius

-Takedown appears to be based on cross pins, as opposed to pieces kept in place by pressure from the return spring as in the type 56

-Safety placed more like an AR-series rifle

-5.8x42 low-impulse round, although the degree to which this constitutes an improvement is debatable.


Compared to the AR-series, it falls short in a few ways:

-The bolt appears to lock into the receiver, which means that the receiver cannot be made of aluminum or polymer to save weight.

-Magazine replacement is based on the "rock and lock" method, based on the placement of the locking pieces of the magazine. This method has proven slower than that used in the drop-free, straight insertion method of ARs.

-The barrel is clearly not free-floated. Free-floated ARs are likely more precise rifles.


It does, on the other hand, have a few advantages of the AR-series:

-Folding stock

-Gas piston operation is arguably more resistant to fouling.


Anything I'm missing? It looks like a solid, but unexceptional rifle.
 
I could be wrong about that. Perhaps the bolt locks into some sort of trunnion or barrel extension.

I agree that locking into the receiver has no obvious advantages; it's just the legacy mechanism left over from many older designs like the SKS.
 
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