New forensic analysis of the gun used by Alec Baldwin demonstrates that there was no malfunction, he had to have pulled the trigger

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old lady new shooter

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A couple of months ago when we read that the case had been dismissed, that was not exactly accurate. The prosecutors at the time said additional investigation was needed and that they might reopen the case depending on the results. So a forensic company was engaged who replaced the parts broken by the FBI and determined that the gun did NOT malfunction, the trigger had to have been pulled, Baldwin's claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

This has been reported by Epoch Times at https://www.theepochtimes.com/us/alec-baldwin-could-face-charges-after-new-forensic-report-5470140 if you have a subscription, or by ABC posting an AP story at https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory...fatal-shooting-cinematographer-alec-102299848.
 
I think anyone who understands firearms already understood that. Revolvers don't fire of their own accord. Not sure exactly what might have been claimed, perhaps that the hammer was cocked and fell upon drawing; but guns don't just go off. My nightstand gun isn't going to shoot randomly in the middle of the night.

I think the bigger issue has always been chain of custody of the gun, and Baldwin (the actor) claiming ignorance that he held anything but a prop. If someone is on set in a cowboy movie, and the prop master hands him 'a shooting iron', and his script has him draw and "fire", he will do that and expect nothing to happen. Guns, swords etc are not CGI'd into the image, the actor holds a prop. Secondly, basic industry safety standards a) do not allow live ammo anywhere near a set, b) do not allow direct pointing of dangerous firearm props (I guess blanks) directly at others.
I make that point, because Baldwin was supposedly practicing a scene. If he's where he should be, then nobody should be downrange of him. It's stated the bullet went through a monitor and hit the woman, so quite possibly she's not in direct line of sight with him (meaning he doesn't see her, somewhere she shouldn't be). And again, he's also (STATING he's) operating on the assumption he was correctly handed a safe prop, not a loaded revolver.

Here's a bit of an extreme stretch- let's say they're making a movie where someone clicks the switch for a Claymore, or pushes a plunger to blow dynamite. When he does, it turns out it actually was wired to explosives, and people were around those explosives, and were killed as a result. Actor's first thought is "*** just happened?", followed quickly by 'that wasn't supposed to be allowed' and "I just did what was scripted in good faith, no way I'm gonna take the blame for that".

There were so many breaches of protocol and rules, it's darn near impossible to list them all. Baldwin (the actor) is unlikely to suffer major criminal prosecution, but Baldwin (the producer) and the director- the guys running this disaster- are unlikely to escape.
 
FBI lab tested the original revolver to destruction of some of the parts to try to make the gun fire without pulling the trigger. They could not get it to fire without the trigger being held back.

Baldwin was rehearsing a scene where he cocked the hammer with his finger inside the trigger guard. He did not have to "pull" the trigger to make it fire if his finger was depressing the trigger as he pulled the hammer back and released it.

The assistant director who took the gun off the prop cart, checked three chambers of a six shooter, declared it cold, and handed it to Baldwin got a sweet deal with the prosecutors, I must say.
 
What I read was that the FBI lab broke the pistol testing it. I believe I read they had hit the hammer, if so, they probably sheared the half cock or damaged the sear surfaces. Good ole FBI protecting anti gun liberals from criminal liability.

If the pistol was stock, then there is no reason for the hammer to slip off the sear. However, I don't care a fig about the mechanical condition of the pistol, the fact is, Baldwin was in charge of productions, and he is ultimately responsible for a live round being in the pistol, regardless of whether he pulled the trigger or not. He created a sloppy, slovenly, unsafe set and someone died because of it. All Baldwin has done is point fingers in every direction but himself.

These are our Liberal Overlords. Worthless, totally shameless and worthless.
 
Slamfire said:
the fact is, Baldwin was in charge of productions, and he is ultimately responsible for a live round being in the pistol, regardless of whether he pulled the trigger or not. He created a sloppy, slovenly, unsafe set and someone died because of it
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That's the part I don't think he can escape.

The actor has a legit claim to say you don't expect a prop to be real; as I said you don't expect pushing a plunger actually will blow up dynamite on set. And also as I said, the protocol is you don't get in front of a gun on set (don't point it at someone); so if he's rehearsing a scene, on his mark, the victim should not have been where he pointed. There were some suggestions posted that she was breaking that rule in order to get the camera in better position for the actual filming (I won't say final shot). If she was behind something like a monitor, the actor again might not know that, and think the area is clear. Which is why a range should have a berm or some other clear backstop that will stop bullets, and not just some bushes.

But while those factors might legally save the actor, they should be what damns the producer, director, and anyone else responsible for the production.
 
Last night I heard Baldwin in an interview say twice that he pulled the hammer back and when he let go of the hammer, the gun went off. Is that possible?
 
stonebuster said:
Last night I heard Baldwin in an interview say twice that he pulled the hammer back and when he let go of the hammer, the gun went off. Is that possible?
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Sure it is, when he didn’t pull the hammer back far enough, or the gun has damage to the hammer mechanism so it doesn’t catch properly, or his finger is inadvertently pulling the trigger.

Still doesn’t absolve the actor of unsafe gun handling, or the producer of running an unsafe set.
 
stonebuster said:
:confused: Last night I heard Baldwin in an interview say twice that he pulled the hammer back and when he let go of the hammer, the gun went off. Is that possible?
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If he is holding the trigger back, because he is incompetent with gun handling, the gun will let the hammer fall and fire a shot.

At minimum, the Doctrine of Vicarious Liability should be holding Baldwin criminally and civilly liable. He not only directly caused the death by pointing a gun at another person and firing a shot, he was also the head honcho in charge of the whole mess. “The buck stops here” with Baldwin no matter if it’s something good or bad.

But fame and money often supersede that and let some folks get away with stuff like this. I have a suspicion that this case will be no different.

Stay safe.
 
In fanning a revolver the trigger is held down and the opposite hand pulls the hammer back and lets it go for rapid successive repeat shots.

"Last night I heard Baldwin in an interview say twice that he pulled the hammer back and when he let go of the hammer, the gun went off. Is that possible?"

Yes.

it is possible to pull the hammer back just enough that the unpulled trigger would not engage it even at the half-cock notch and when released, the hammer might well have enough energy to fire the primer, especially if it were done once with no effect, and then again. Nevertheless, safety rules were violated from the time they were away from the set shooting live ammo for fun to the time Baldwin the producer pointed it in someone's direction and the bang occurred.

An iron checklist requiiring pen or pencil responses seems to be necessary for these situations.
 
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Slamfire said:
If the pistol was stock, then there is no reason for the hammer to slip off the sear. However, I don't care a fig about the mechanical condition of the pistol, the fact is, Baldwin was in charge of productions, and he is ultimately responsible for a live round being in the pistol, regardless of whether he pulled the trigger or not. He created a sloppy, slovenly, unsafe set and someone died because of it. All Baldwin has done is point fingers in every direction but himself.
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That is what the armorer has been claiming. She has said that there were times that she arrived on set and found the prop master loading weapons because Alec was producer and he wanted to start filming NOW!
 
I have never read anything except the case was dismissed until more investigation could be done. The thing is NM prosecuters are usually that because they are inept compared to defense attorneys. I still say he will either skate or get a sweetheart deal if convicted of anything, just a fine and not a large one. NM State government has a love affair with the movie/tv industry and isn't going to do anything to lessen their presence here. They love them so much that the state rebates to them most of what they spend here. It is a rob Peter to pay Paul thing. They want the jobs and taxes it brings but turn around and give most of it back.

The armorer will probably wind up being convicted as she is a nobody in the field. You know what is said runs downhill when there is a major screw-up and she seems to be at the bottom of the hill.
 
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doubleh said:
I have never read anything except the case was dismissed until more investigation could be done. The thing is NM prosecuters are usually that because they are inept compared to defense attorneys. I still say he will either skate or get a sweetheart deal if convicted of anything, just a fine and not a large one. NM State government has a love affair with the movie/tv industry and isn't going to do anything to lessen their presence here. They love them so much that the state rebates to them most of what they spend here. It is a rob Peter to pay Paul thing. They want the jobs and taxes it brings but turn around and give most of it back.

The armorer will probably wind up being convicted as she is a nobody in the field. You know what is said runs downhill when there is a major screw-up and she seems to be at the bottom of the hill.
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They did fine the production company $100K for other safety violations.
 
old lady new shooter said:
They did fine the production company $100K for other safety violations.
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Which I see as small beans when a preventable death is involved. If it's an oil production company emitting slightly over the state allowable of methane emissions it is always in the millions. Very little is allowed and the state flies two helicopters daily in the Permian Basin equipped with cameras that each cost more than the production company's fine to see these. The difference is state government loves Hollywood and hates the oil companies even though they provide about half of the state's budget and get no rebates, just constant hassling from the state.
 
Poper said:
I am still wondering: What the Dickens was live ammunition doing anywhere near the set?
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There were safety complaints and crew members walked off the set over a number of other issues.

Then after the shootting, stories came out that bored crew members were taking live-firing prop guns and shooting cans with live ammo.

The prop tray the day of the rehearsal had:
a blue plastic dummy gun.
a non-functioning prop that could realistically hold dummy rounds
a live prop gun for fitrng blanks (obviously capable of firing live ammo).
Who chose to use the fireable prop gun for a rehearsal in front of the cinematographer?
 
i don't like Alec Baldwin but do we expect the actors to be the one to decide proper gun handling when the script and the cinematographer dictates the action. it should be the armourer's/prop master's job to make sure it is a cold weapon. who brought the live ammunition on set? there were reports of the armourer engaging in target shooting at the end of the production day with some of the crew.
if the script says to shoot a person then the gun better have blanks and that is not up to the actor to make sure it does. the armourer should have the final say on that. Brandon Lee's death was an example. the actor shooting him was ff the script but the ineptitude of the prop department is what killed him as the fired blank pushed a bullet that was lodged in the barrel from a previous close up.

"During the scene, the gun was loaded with "dummy" cartridges, which are used for close-up shots because they contain the actual projectile on the end of the cartridge but contain no gunpowder. (It looks more realistic if the camera can see the bullet tips in the pistol's cylinders.) It seems that the prop department didn't have any of these "dummy" cartridges on hand, so rather than shut down the production for the night, some Bozo decided that he'd "rig" some of the live rounds. They removed the gunpowder from the cartridges and replaced the bullet tips, thereby giving them the "dummy' rounds that were needed for the close-up shots. At some point, one of the tips would unknowingly come detached from the cartridge and lodge itself within the barrel or cylinder of the handgun."
 
doubleh said:
Which I see as small beans when a preventable death is involved. If it's an oil production company emitting slightly over the state allowable of methane emissions it is always in the millions. Very little is allowed and the state flies two helicopters daily in the Permian Basin equipped with cameras that each cost more than the production company's fine to see these. The difference is state government loves Hollywood and hates the oil companies even though they provide about half of the state's budget and get no rebates, just constant hassling from the state.
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The fine wasn't for the shooting, it was for not investigating the reported previous incidents.
 
roval said:
Brandon Lee's death was an example. the actor shooting him was ff the script but the ineptitude of the prop department is what killed him as the fired blank pushed a bullet that was lodged in the barrel from a previous close up.

"During the scene, the gun was loaded with "dummy" cartridges, which are used for close-up shots because they contain the actual projectile on the end of the cartridge but contain no gunpowder. (It looks more realistic if the camera can see the bullet tips in the pistol's cylinders.) It seems that the prop department didn't have any of these "dummy" cartridges on hand, so rather than shut down the production for the night, some Bozo decided that he'd "rig" some of the live rounds. They removed the gunpowder from the cartridges and replaced the bullet tips, thereby giving them the "dummy' rounds that were needed for the close-up shots. At some point, one of the tips would unknowingly come detached from the cartridge and lodge itself within the barrel or cylinder of the handgun."
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:what:

Was the person who "rigged" the live rounds prosecuted?
 
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