New German Superrifle!

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@ Sam

What /where is the magic in CZ/Glock/SIG that they should be excepted?
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What/where is the magic in Ruger/S&W/Colt pistols that those are superior in your opinion??? :confused: :confused: :confused:

Ruger pistols (NOT their revolvers!!!) are crappy, S&W pistols (again NOT their revolvers!!!) are of average but not outstanding quality and Colt pistols (long ago) used to be quite good.

But those weapons are no match against the ultra-accurate SIG 210, the super-reliable CZ 75 or the SIGSauer P226 X-ZONE which oozes quality and workmanship.

No jab at any posters, just my 2 cents. ;) :neener:
 
Sam, the Belgians ain't exactly world reknowned for their butt kicking ability, but I would take an FN-FAL over pretty much anything else out there.

National ability at winning wars has about jack squat to do with the quality of one nation's firearms. To think so is to delude ourselves. Just because it is made in America, don't mean that it is any swoopier than something stamped on similar machinery by a guy named Fritz or Ivan.

As for the gun at hand, I have a real hard time paying that much money for something that I can either purchase something real close for half, or build myself for a third.
 
Being in Canada where we get Oberland Arms stuff, I can say from what I have seen they are extremely high quality. They use all stainless steel lower receiver components on there rifles. I also enjoy there HK style pictogram lower receiver markings for safe, semi, and full.

Very nice guns indeed.
 
Hooray to the guy/gal from Canada! :)


He/she is in the know!
:) :cool:
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The CZ/Glock/SIG are solutions to problems that only exist in the mind of people with too much time and too many lawyers on thier hands.
I believe the best commentary comes from Col. Cooper, "What is it for?"
Sort of like my Grandmothers floor model Transoceanic radio, OFF/ON Volume, Tuning and 172 spare knobs.

The SIG 210 is a nicely made weapon that is underpowered, overly expensive. It could not survive as a service pistol let alone a commercial venture.

Where did the FAL's basic design come from? From what is it derived and how did it get there?

No magic in any Ruger and or S&W Pistols, they are lawyer proof constructions and it shows.
No magic involved at all in Colt/S&W revolvers/Colt Pistols, thier sucess comes from getting it correct pretty much from the start. Thier basic designs have survived for the better part of 100 years with only cosmetic "improvements".


Countries that win wars have something besides thier gun design ability, they have social design ability. (for the record the U.S. lost that ability during the FDR administration.)
Can you give me the stock answer to an invasion of Belgium?

Sam
 
<Where did the FAL's basic design come from? From what is it derived and how did it get there?>

IIRC, the Fal was designed by Saive'...The guy that finished the P35 design after the GOD of gun designers was called home..
 
Perhaps I should have made the question clearer.
Savie did in fact finish the P35m but from what did he derive the desigfor the SAFN and the FAL and by extension the GPMG/M240?

Sam
 
Sam, on the FAL idea, as a fan of John Browning, I would say that the dropping bolt, and the general shape of it came from the BAR. However the gas system of the SAFN and BAR are very different, plus the BAR bolt carrier moves in a different plane than the straight to the rear, unlock and drop of the SAFN. The machine work, and overall design have some similarities, but not that many.

As for the Belgians sucking at war, that was exactly my point. By your contention we should not bother with FN guns because their army sucks. But their guns are superb.

What is it for? Posed by Cooper. Interesting question, and I don't see how it applies to the CZ, Sig, or Glock. What they are for is totally obvious. They are service handguns. They work extreamly well. They are reliable. They are durable. One of them is even simpler than the American manufactured, Browning designed .45 currently residing on my hip as I type this.

Even Cooper was a fan of the CZ-75. You quote a man whose Scout Rifle comes off an assembly line manned by guys named Fritz and Deiter.

As for too many lawyers on their hands, I was not aware that the communists in the middle of the Cold War were so distracted by lawyers.

So what exactly is your point? American guns suck because of lawyers now, but they used to be good, and all foreign guns suck unless they have won wars recently?

So if I have a choice between my FAL and a British L85, I should take the L85 because the British have won all of the same wars we have in the last 50 years?

Your right, there isn't any magic. Guns are mechancial constructs. They are simple machines. Country of origin has about jack squat to do with how well they work.

Holy crap, I can't believe I'm defending an AR clone. I must go to the gunstore and purchase another AK in penance. :p
 
Interesting, it looks to me like an AR lower, HK upper, and HK magazine. I guess that I was expecting something a little more original, but maybe it shoots like a dream.
 
I'l just get opinionated and end the discussion.

1. All foreign weapons are not bad and all US weapons are not good.
Countries that operate as truly free societies produce excellance in most thing that they do, whether it be it's products or thier conduct of other affairs.

I do not consider the the GPMG/M240 to necessarily be highly useful products, neither were the M60 or the M73. The SAFN and FAL are more useful.
The 1917 and 1919 Brownings, Maxim and Vickers are superior. Yes, I am very familiar with the MG43 and it's variants and do not care for them.
To fast, too light.

Cooper praised the CZ as a service pistol for 2 reasons, He liked the grip and felt that with a choice of operating mode troops would not be restricted to a DA/SA only mode of operation when the modes needed to be seperated. Only time will tell if the Glock ever becomes a really superior pistol. I do not have much hope for the non mode selective DA/SA pistols.

I believe that Cooper is enamored of the Steyr because Steyr would make it, not necessarily because it is superior. It is closer to his ideal than anything else on the market and that is it's strength. It does not appear to be surviving well on the market.

Belgians engineer weapons well but have seldom produced superior original designs. I greatly appreciate the many ways that the BAR has been belted, upended, pistol gripped and swap barreled by FN and still does't do the LMG/Autorifle as well as the original. They evolve them to fit the market. I will not concede that they are superb or any great improvement on thier predecessors.

Und ich muß bitten, was bilde dieses das "new deutsches Superrifle"?

I will stand by the war connection. weapons tested and proven that way stick around a long time, and have thier bugs worked out faster. It is a natural selection thing.

Sam

Oh by the way the Brits haven't won much of late either, (Falklands/Malvinas conflict is still undecided) hang onto the coattails hard enough and you can get dragged across the puddle without getting too wet.
 
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It could not survive as a service pistol let alone a commercial venture.
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Sam the SIG 210 WAS the Swiss army pistol for many years (since 1949). It was also the standard pistol in the Danish armed forces. Last but not least it was used by the German Bundesgrenzschutz (federal border police) since 1951.
 
One of those would look nice in her cute little paws
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I think the one she has looks just fine :D

as does she :) I had that pic as my desktop background for quite a while
 
It's folks like the Bill Cosby quoter above that make me ashamed to like 1911's and Garands. :uhoh:

When it has been on active service for 70 years or so with less than 3 Mk's, let meknow.
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I imagine some guy toting a Hand Ejector has said that to some 1911-packin' whippersnapper at sometime in the past. :uhoh:
 
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