Grayrider
Member
Gang,
I asked Mark Westrom’s permission to post Armalite’s response to the suggestions regarding their new pistol line from myself and forum members. He was glad to have me do that and welcomes further feedback. I think it is worth noting that he is extremely qualified to develop a high quality pistol line. For those of you unfamiliar with his background, he has an impressive record as a gunsmith while serving in the United States Army. Mr. Westrom was also an accomplished competitive shooter while serving our country. As Armalite’s web site notes,
“…while stationed in Germany in the 1970s he was awarded the German “Meisternadel in Gold” for achievement in pistol competition. He later earned both the Distinguished Pistol Shot and Distinguished Rifle Shot Badges. This “Double Distinguished” status has been earned by fewer than 2 soldiers per year over the past 100 years. He was awarded the prestigious “President’s 100” badge 1991.”
He knows a good pistol when he handles one, and good manufacturing when he sees it. I am impressed that a dedicated 1911 shooter is working hard on producing a quality CZ pattern gun. I am a fan of both and have long felt that many advances from the 1911 world could contribute to producing a quality CZ. I think we are about to see that happen.
I must note on these responses that I edited them down a bit to save space and condense duplicate discussion during the dialogue of several emails. Be aware that the original suggestions I sent (in particular mine) were quite lengthy. I have abbreviated them to a sentence or two here, but can elaborate on what I said if anyone is interested. So the answers below are my rewording of the replies.
For those of you interested in this project and who are fans of CZ pattern guns, I think you will be pleased. He did stress that all features are subject to change as they are still in development. I think we can all understand that the process of producing a completely new product is complex and some modifications will be necessary.
1. Magazines: This can be a problem area for Tanfoglio derived pistols. What will Armalite do to ensure quality magazines? Will additional capacity magazines be offered? How many magazines will ship with a gun?
Armalite magazines will have metal floor plates and possibly metal followers. They will compare the current magazines with current production CZ magazines to see how they interchange. Sarsilmaz is currently making their magazines. Higher capacity magazines will be offered, with 25 rounds the target for a 9mm extended magazine. Each gun will have two magazines.
2. Grips: Tanfoglio rubber grips are inferior to those made by CZ. Members also pointed out that the Sarsilmaz finger-groove grips did not look appealing. What will Armalite offer?
Armalite will produce grips similar to the current CZ rubber grips. They will not have finger grooves.
3. Trigger: What trigger design and pull can we expect?
This will be a major area of focus and a lot of time will be devoted to determining the exact trigger options. No determination has been made yet.
4. Safeties: Both Tanfoglio and CZ offer a safety lever on some models with a flat shelf. This allows the shooter to grip high and rest the thumb of the right hand on the safety as it is disengaged. Will Armalite have something similar?
Armalite may do both, with a low grip position for carry and a higher one for competition use. Ambi safeties may or may not be available, that is yet to be determined.
5. Slide stop: These are prone to breaking on CZ pattern guns. How will Armalite address this?
Possibly with a forged and machined stop, but also may just include extras with gun as CZ does for competition models.
6. Magazine catch: A slightly extended one would be a good feature.
Armalite agrees.
7. Sights: Will they be dovetailed and will they be CZ compatible? How about a Novak-style sight for carry?
The Armalite sights will be dovetailed but from the side, so not CZ pattern. Sights will be offered both for carry and competition use.
8. Barrel: Tanfoglio guns almost always need the feed ramp polished to run reliably. Will Armalite do that from the factory and what type of rifling will be used?
Armalite will be sure the ramps are properly polished and will use conventional rifling. Sarsilmaz broach cuts their barrels and they are of exceptional quality.
9. Finish: What sorts of finishes will Armalite offer?
Armalite would like customer feedback on that before deciding further.
10. Accessory Rail/Dust Cover: Will Armalite offer guns with a rail, possibly something like a CZ SP-01?
It will take a little time to tool up for that, but Armalite plans to.
11. Holsters: It is vital that holster makers be ready to support their guns when they ship. Will Armalite work with them to make sure this happens?
Absolutely. Armalite asks what sort of holsters the customers will want?
12. CZ compatibility: How compatible will the guns be with CZ parts?
This is still in the process of being determined. They have to compare parts of the existing guns to see where they are at.
13. Night sights: Will night sights be an option?
Yes they will. The luminous paint option for base guns will be considered as well.
14. Combo-packages: How about an “XD Gear” like package for guns with holster and mag pouch?
Armalite will consider that as an option after the initial introduction of the guns.
15. FCS: Some shooters don't like front cocking serrations. Will the guns have them?
Some models may not as the slides are angled vertically. This is still to be determined. Note that the Armalite pistols will be wider at the back of the slide to aide in gripping the thin (vertically) slides of CZ pattern guns.
16. Competition features: What features will be offered on competition guns? Compensators? Hybrid porting? Sights? Controls? Mag wells? SA trigger?
Armalite would like further feedback on this. What would shooters like?
17. Quality control: How is Sarsilmaz’s ability to produce quality pistols?
Armalite has extensively inspected their facilities, equipment, and procedures. All equipment is of extremely high quality, staffing exceptional, and quality control first rate. Quality will not be an issue.
18. Calibers: Will Armalite offer more calibers than 9mm, 40, and 45?
Calibers will be added as they prove practical and if there is a market.
19. Price: How will pricing compare to other guns on the market?
Pricing will be between the Springfield XD and the Glock. Quality is the main focus, so these will not be low end guns in terms of price.
20. California and other anti-gun states: Will your guns be submitted for testing/certification procedures?
Armalite will submit these guns to every state authority that is required.
21. Evaluation guns: Will Armalite get the guns in the hands of competition shooters for evaluation?
When some match guns are available this will be done.
22. Polymer frame colors: What colors will be available?
OD green (based on the Armalite rifle furniture color) is likely. Other colors to be determined.
23. Long-slide models: Tanfoglio offers these, will Armalite?
It will be considered.
24. .22 conversion kits: Will Armalite have one?
This will be strongly considered.
I hope you will all find this interesting. I will relay any further comments along and will likely have some future posts to address some of the questions above.
GR
I asked Mark Westrom’s permission to post Armalite’s response to the suggestions regarding their new pistol line from myself and forum members. He was glad to have me do that and welcomes further feedback. I think it is worth noting that he is extremely qualified to develop a high quality pistol line. For those of you unfamiliar with his background, he has an impressive record as a gunsmith while serving in the United States Army. Mr. Westrom was also an accomplished competitive shooter while serving our country. As Armalite’s web site notes,
“…while stationed in Germany in the 1970s he was awarded the German “Meisternadel in Gold” for achievement in pistol competition. He later earned both the Distinguished Pistol Shot and Distinguished Rifle Shot Badges. This “Double Distinguished” status has been earned by fewer than 2 soldiers per year over the past 100 years. He was awarded the prestigious “President’s 100” badge 1991.”
He knows a good pistol when he handles one, and good manufacturing when he sees it. I am impressed that a dedicated 1911 shooter is working hard on producing a quality CZ pattern gun. I am a fan of both and have long felt that many advances from the 1911 world could contribute to producing a quality CZ. I think we are about to see that happen.
I must note on these responses that I edited them down a bit to save space and condense duplicate discussion during the dialogue of several emails. Be aware that the original suggestions I sent (in particular mine) were quite lengthy. I have abbreviated them to a sentence or two here, but can elaborate on what I said if anyone is interested. So the answers below are my rewording of the replies.
For those of you interested in this project and who are fans of CZ pattern guns, I think you will be pleased. He did stress that all features are subject to change as they are still in development. I think we can all understand that the process of producing a completely new product is complex and some modifications will be necessary.
1. Magazines: This can be a problem area for Tanfoglio derived pistols. What will Armalite do to ensure quality magazines? Will additional capacity magazines be offered? How many magazines will ship with a gun?
Armalite magazines will have metal floor plates and possibly metal followers. They will compare the current magazines with current production CZ magazines to see how they interchange. Sarsilmaz is currently making their magazines. Higher capacity magazines will be offered, with 25 rounds the target for a 9mm extended magazine. Each gun will have two magazines.
2. Grips: Tanfoglio rubber grips are inferior to those made by CZ. Members also pointed out that the Sarsilmaz finger-groove grips did not look appealing. What will Armalite offer?
Armalite will produce grips similar to the current CZ rubber grips. They will not have finger grooves.
3. Trigger: What trigger design and pull can we expect?
This will be a major area of focus and a lot of time will be devoted to determining the exact trigger options. No determination has been made yet.
4. Safeties: Both Tanfoglio and CZ offer a safety lever on some models with a flat shelf. This allows the shooter to grip high and rest the thumb of the right hand on the safety as it is disengaged. Will Armalite have something similar?
Armalite may do both, with a low grip position for carry and a higher one for competition use. Ambi safeties may or may not be available, that is yet to be determined.
5. Slide stop: These are prone to breaking on CZ pattern guns. How will Armalite address this?
Possibly with a forged and machined stop, but also may just include extras with gun as CZ does for competition models.
6. Magazine catch: A slightly extended one would be a good feature.
Armalite agrees.
7. Sights: Will they be dovetailed and will they be CZ compatible? How about a Novak-style sight for carry?
The Armalite sights will be dovetailed but from the side, so not CZ pattern. Sights will be offered both for carry and competition use.
8. Barrel: Tanfoglio guns almost always need the feed ramp polished to run reliably. Will Armalite do that from the factory and what type of rifling will be used?
Armalite will be sure the ramps are properly polished and will use conventional rifling. Sarsilmaz broach cuts their barrels and they are of exceptional quality.
9. Finish: What sorts of finishes will Armalite offer?
Armalite would like customer feedback on that before deciding further.
10. Accessory Rail/Dust Cover: Will Armalite offer guns with a rail, possibly something like a CZ SP-01?
It will take a little time to tool up for that, but Armalite plans to.
11. Holsters: It is vital that holster makers be ready to support their guns when they ship. Will Armalite work with them to make sure this happens?
Absolutely. Armalite asks what sort of holsters the customers will want?
12. CZ compatibility: How compatible will the guns be with CZ parts?
This is still in the process of being determined. They have to compare parts of the existing guns to see where they are at.
13. Night sights: Will night sights be an option?
Yes they will. The luminous paint option for base guns will be considered as well.
14. Combo-packages: How about an “XD Gear” like package for guns with holster and mag pouch?
Armalite will consider that as an option after the initial introduction of the guns.
15. FCS: Some shooters don't like front cocking serrations. Will the guns have them?
Some models may not as the slides are angled vertically. This is still to be determined. Note that the Armalite pistols will be wider at the back of the slide to aide in gripping the thin (vertically) slides of CZ pattern guns.
16. Competition features: What features will be offered on competition guns? Compensators? Hybrid porting? Sights? Controls? Mag wells? SA trigger?
Armalite would like further feedback on this. What would shooters like?
17. Quality control: How is Sarsilmaz’s ability to produce quality pistols?
Armalite has extensively inspected their facilities, equipment, and procedures. All equipment is of extremely high quality, staffing exceptional, and quality control first rate. Quality will not be an issue.
18. Calibers: Will Armalite offer more calibers than 9mm, 40, and 45?
Calibers will be added as they prove practical and if there is a market.
19. Price: How will pricing compare to other guns on the market?
Pricing will be between the Springfield XD and the Glock. Quality is the main focus, so these will not be low end guns in terms of price.
20. California and other anti-gun states: Will your guns be submitted for testing/certification procedures?
Armalite will submit these guns to every state authority that is required.
21. Evaluation guns: Will Armalite get the guns in the hands of competition shooters for evaluation?
When some match guns are available this will be done.
22. Polymer frame colors: What colors will be available?
OD green (based on the Armalite rifle furniture color) is likely. Other colors to be determined.
23. Long-slide models: Tanfoglio offers these, will Armalite?
It will be considered.
24. .22 conversion kits: Will Armalite have one?
This will be strongly considered.
I hope you will all find this interesting. I will relay any further comments along and will likely have some future posts to address some of the questions above.
GR
