New Glock 19 Gen3 is Jamming

[GLOOB]

None of my Glocks do it, either. But I don't have any of recent manufacture. A friend's gen4 G19 did this, but only when brand new.

Glock did 2 things which make this malfunction more likely to happen. They changed the extractor. It's now cast or MIM, or w/e, and the specs are a little different and reportedly it's sometimes a tight fit in the sldie. And they are now doing the parkerized coating which is thicker and rougher, so this makes the extractor even sticker when new. Both these changes apply to the recent production gen3's, so they're going to be more prone to experience this kind of jam, even more so than the gen4's with their heavier recoil spring.

So "Glocks don't need a break in" could be a thing of the past.

 

[Warp]

When did they change the extractor to MIM?

As it happens I have had the G26 from the video since 2005. I got my G19, which has also passed that test (though I will do it again soon) in 2009. And I got a G21SF, which I have NOT done a limp wrist test on yet, last year.

 

[GLOOB]

Around the time they made the gen4 they changed to a cheaper way of manufacturing the extractor. I dunno if it's MIM or something else. Just do a google search. But a sticky extractor could be more a side effect of the thicker, rougher,"parkerized" coating. The extractor gets hit by a quadruple dose of the difference in surface coating. Top and bottom of the extractor, and top and bottom of the extractor slot. As the part wears in, the surfaces wear down and smooth out.

*OP, glad your issue has resolved!

 

[C0untZer0]

The copper anti-seize Glock puts in there is not the greatest IMO

The are several different kinds of copper anti-sieze out there.

I'm guessing that because Glock is in Austria they are probably using the German Henkle, but I could be wrong.

The MSDS for the Henkle LOCTITE C5-A is right here:

http://complyplus.grainger.com/grainger/msds.asp?sheetid=3841897#sec2

Some of the companies that make the stuff (like VersaChem) flat out say that it's not a lubricant. It is more commonly called an anti-seize compound or anti-seize assembly compound - sometimes called anti-seize thread lubricant. It is something that you put on an assembly that enables it to be taken back apart at some future date - hence the name "anti-seize" - as in keeping a bolt from seizing up. But not the same connotation as a lubricant that keeps moving parts from seizing up.

So here's my opinion on the copper anti-seize.

One thing that it does better than almost any other grease its that it doesn't separate, dry out or become tacky.

So we all know that there are people who, when they buy a gun, they don't clean it, they don't lube it, they go straight to the range and start blasting away.

I think Glock puts the copper anti-seize in their Glocks to mitigate against the situation where a Glock sits for a long while - either in transport or at distributors and then in a gun shop etc... and then an owner doesn't clean or lube but just fires it. The anti-seize will provide some lubrication and protection of the metal.

The copper anti-seize is for a particular application: shipping it and trying to prepare for some knucklehead who is going to basically fire it right out of the box.

But I think it's completely useless for an owner to use the stuff. There are lubricants - oil and grease out there that are much better, and if an owner has his Glock in storage for a while he can always just clean and re-lube the pistol before firing. Are there that many situations where someone doesn't ever have an opportunity to do regular maintenance on their pistol - it just sits in storage, but they might need to shoot it at a moments notice?

Well if you really truly have that situation then maybe copper anti-seize is the right lube for that application.

Really though, the stuff is targeted for a particular application - to prevent bolts & fasters from welding with the materials they're holding together and to prevent them from corroding and for enabling bolts / fasteners to be backed out at some future time and to prevent them from seizing up when they're untightened.

I have not been able to find NLGI ratings for most of the copper anti-seize compounds, but at least the Versachem I purchased seemed to be thicker than the Walmart Super Tech Extreme Pressure Multi-Duty Complex Hi-Temp grease - which is NLGI #2

It's gritty compared to other gun greases or even compared to general purpose packing grease.

The copper grease that came on my Glock was fairly thick, mostly came off after the third firing / cleaning. There is some trace of it left - which resembles copper fouling - which jives with what another anti-seize manufacturer says about their product.

I was reading the tech sheet on Jet-Lube's copper anti-seize - and it states:

"will not separate, settle out, harden, or dry out in storage"

^ This IMO may be why Glock ships their pistols with copper anti-seize in them.

Their TDS also states:

JET-LUBE SS-30 literally copper plates mating and sliding surfaces to provide protection against seizure, galling, and heat-freeze. Its high content of copper particles prevents metal-to-metal contact, maintaining lubrication qualities under wide variations of temperature, expansion, contraction, and cyclic loadings.

Notice that the German Henkle LOCTITE C5-A has ground up quartz crystals in it - used as a thickner.

Quartz crystals in a lube that goes on a big bolt that is going to stay in place and then go a few revolutions when it's untightened - not a big a deal. Quartz crystals between two sliding steel parts in a hand gun? I don't think it's a good idea. But then again - I don't know exactly what goes into the copper lube that Glock uses. Other copper anti-seize manufacturers use lime as a thickner. Some manufactuer's copper anti-seize is basically lithium grease with copper powder in it.

I think there is better grease out there and I would take the goop off immediately and use any gun oil or gun grease there instead.

 

[C0untZer0]

And another thing...

IMO Glocks shouldn't need and don't need a break-in period.

You read hundreds of glowing reviews of the reliability and toughness of Glocks right out of the box, but when an owner has an issue someone somewhere starts talking about a break-in period.

IMO there is no break in period for a Glock.

 

[C0untZer0]

I have the supposedly "bad" dipped extractor and I haven't had any problems with it, but I have a 17L and maybe the larger size of the slide makes a difference, although I've heard Glock has tried to make the 17L slide weight about the same as a 17 I've never seen them weighed side-by-side.

From the last I heard, people who send their gun back to Glock for brass wacking them in the face get only a new extractor I've heard that Glock gives them forged extractors for a replacement. But they're not trading out RSAs and ejectors any more. People who send their guns in with the 336 ejector for example have their gun come back with a new extractor and a the old 336 ejector still in place.

 

[GLOOB]

I have the supposedly "bad" dipped extractor

It's not a bad extractor, in most cases. It may or may not need a short break in. And like you noted, sometimes it even needs to be replaced.

The copper anti-seize is for a particular application: shipping it and trying to prepare for some knucklehead who is going to basically fire it right out of the box.

You should check and/or patch the bore, but you are SUPPOSED to leave the copper stuff on there, they way it came out of the box.

Quartz crystals between two sliding steel parts in a hand gun? I don't think it's a good idea.

I think there is better grease out there and I would take the goop off immediately and use any gun oil or gun grease there instead.

The point of that stuff IS to lap fit the gun, not just to lube. That's why you're supposed to leave in on there for the first 100 shots or so, then remove it and replace it with oil. If it was just for lube, the manual wouldn't say that.

Quartz crystal sounds bad. Yes, it's harder than steel and will remove material. But ANY grinding/buffing/polishing/finishing compound is harder than the material it polishes. The rate of material removal and smoothness of the finish is largely determined by the shape and size of those particles.

 

[C0untZer0]

It doesn't makes sense to me, on the one hand the copper is supposed to put a protective copper coating between the pieces coming in contact with each other, but the quartz crystals are supposed to provide "lapping" ?

And the main application that this stuff was really invented for - manifolds and assemblies - there wouldn't be any lapping right? It's just thread anti-seize compound.

I'd rather just put regular lithium moly grease in my Glock.

My point about the copper anti-seize shipping with Glocks is that

1) Owners have reported varying amounts of it in their guns. Mine came with a dab. Others have reported that there was a lot of it in their slide and even some on the rails.

2) It's pretty think stuff. Thicker than NLGI #2, and if it is gooped on the slide rails I could see it slowing the action down.

 

[GLOOB]

The copper doesn't provide a protective coating. It's just lubrication. When you wipe it off, it's gone after a few more shots. The effect of the lapping stays long after you remove the copper.

I'd rather just put regular lithium moly grease in my Glock.

That's your preference, and I respect that. But Glocks don't need moly grease. That just traps powder and grit. A tiny dot of light oil is all you need.

 

[otasan56]

No, they don't.

PS: I just posted a video about this very thing only a few posts up from yours. I don't see a better way to prove my point than that.

No GOOD defensive pistol should have limp-wristing problems. If it does, and changing mags or ammo doesn't completely rid the problem, it's time to find a different defensive pistol. If the problem is with a Glock, that gun has a problem of some sort, that isn't the way it ought to be.

Okay, you are right.

 

[bsctov]

Replace magazine spring and check follower for deformations or other damage. Inspect chamber opening and feed ramp for burs or other defects.

 

[tinroad37e]

Wow....a lot of arguing on here. Check the feedramp and polish it..it's free! Yes, polishing feedramps on Glocks are not necessary, or shouldn't be, but hell, just do it.

 

[mes228]

Glock

I've owned perhaps 15 or so Glock's, all Gen 3 17,19,22,23's. I suspect I have 10K rounds through the 3 I have as keepers. Total rounds through all of them would probably be much much higher. I have never had a failure, or a burp of any kind. I shoot only factory ammo and lube a little different than Glock manuals recommend. Because of my experiences I feel if a Gen 3 Glock malfunctions something is wrong with the pistol. All I've owned were stone cold reliable if they are stock un-messed with pistols. If it jams and it's a Gen 3 Glock 19 it's probably broken in some way. Send it back for repair would be my suggestion.

 

[seastrike]

I had a post about a magazine issue in a gen 3 Glock 17 the other day. The culprit was the magazine follower. Plastic near the top edge of the follower had deformed and prevented the follower from raising all the way up.

An exacto knife cured this.

 

[C0untZer0]

Problem was fixed by cleaning and properly lubricating

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8172450&postcount=50