New Glock 19 Gen3 is Jamming
- Thread starter faceyournation
- Start date
- Status
With Glocks, this is not true. They are DESIGNED for NATO pressure ammo. Many US ammo manufactures sell underpowered 9mm. DannyR on Glocktalk did an extensive test. I have the list somewhere...Federal Champion, Remington UMC, Magtech, and a few others are at the very bottom of that list.
MANY Glock malfunctions have been traced to weak ammo.
M
Last edited:
I can hold my service size hi-cap 9 pretty much any way I want and the pistol will go off in succession w/o problems......why is that? Is 'limp wrist' while holding a gun only problem with Glock pistol?
Inebriated
Member
Yeah, MANY malfunctions are traced to weak ammo. But THIS malfunction is not. He has stated that the ammo gets hung up, even after releasing the slide from it's locked position. That has nothing to do with the ammunition's power.
I was referring to HGUNHNTR's previous comment.
Glock advises NOT to charge the pistol by using the slide release as this can cause a failure of the slide to return completely to full battery position. Recommended use is the "slingshot" or "overhand" method to charge the pistol. That requires the slide to be pulled FULLY TO THE REARWARD POSITION and released quickly allowing the slide to "slam the round home".
BTW, I am a certified Glock armorer and instructor and have dealt with this problem many times.
M
Inebriated
Member
I didn't say one way or the other if it was slingshot, power stroke, or slide release. Though I agree, I think power stroke is the best way to run any auto. It works 100% on 99% of the autos out there. But my point was that it has nothing to do with the power of the ammo. But I see the post you're referencing, and it makes more sense than you bringing it up to fix OP's issue.
solvability
Member
Under powered ammo is a frequent problem in a Glock with factory recoil spring - that can be made worse by a bad grip.
The OP said his slide drags when dropping it from the "locked" position. I was correcting him on his technique. Compounding his problems with this pistol was the use of "weak" ammo. If he is a new shooter, he may have "other" problems (with his grip, stance, trigger control, breathing, sights, etc.) as well.
To no one in particular:
Glocks were designed for European NATO (+P) pressure ammuntion from day one. When the Glock 17 was first imported into the US, they came with an 18# recoil spring. Glock quickly had to change to a 17# spring to accomodate the lower-powered US manufactured ammo. Glock has set a minimum pressure (velocity) standard to ensure reliable functioning
Here is DannyRs list. Note Magtech 115 gr is near the bottom:
Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1180 146.32
Fiocchi 147 1000 147.00
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
Magtech 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60
Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35
Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Magtech 124 1109 137.52
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70
Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70
Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
Magtech 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champion 115 1125 129.38
*2000 Glock Armorers manual
M
Last edited:
Glocks do not need broken in, and 115gr bullets should be just fine. However, the cheap/weak practice rounds that can sometimes be difficult for pistols to cycle properly are generally 115gr.
You should also be able to shoot a new Glock for hundreds of rounds without putting doing a single thing to it, no oil or anything, without a problem.
BUT using different ammo, a different magazine, and an oiled gun might make the difference. Report back.
You should also be able to shoot a new Glock for hundreds of rounds without putting doing a single thing to it, no oil or anything, without a problem.
BUT using different ammo, a different magazine, and an oiled gun might make the difference. Report back.
Any Glock armorer should know that this is not a slide release, but a slide stop. It is designed purely as a mechanism for holding the slide open. Americans, being used to a slide release, have started to (incorrectly) use it as one. Glock even offers an extended version for the US market...seemingly against their own advice as not using it as such.
As pointed out, this is most likely not an issue of not using nato ammo.
Well now...let's not get huffy.
"Slide release" is common parlance among "non-Glockers" and "new shooters"...descibes it's function to the uninitiated, and I will use it as I damn-well please, thank you.
The OP has a problem jamming with weak ammo (post #1) AND with the slide hanging up when using the release (post #3). I was addressing both of his concerns. Use of the slide release can cause a failure to go into battery.
M
Last edited:
First time I've ever heard that. I've heard people cite that as a reason, and I don't agree. I've never heard of Glock saying that. But I admit, I probably didn't read the entire manual, myself. There are good reasons to not use the slide stop as a release, but I don't think that's one of them.
I'm very sad for all these people with Glocks and Glock mags that jam when you look at them wrong. I guess my Glocks and my 2 dozen Glock mags are special. If I had gotten a "regular" Glock that couldn't finish cycling a round when it was limpwristed or slingshotted, or slide released, or because my thumb was touching the slide, or for any other reason, then I'd be be looking for a new platform. I mean, there are guns that have these problems. I have owned some of them. But not my Glocks, nor any of my other current centerfire pistols. There are plenty of guns that will lock up in full battery just fine when you do all these things "incorrectly." Any gun that can't is a malfunction waiting to happen.
I bet it's just a break in issue. Once the rails and extractor are broken in, this will probably go away. I'm concerned how few people seem to appreciate the extractor's role in this. When the round feeds, the rim has to push by the extractor to get all the way centered over the breechface. What happens is the rim stops on the extractor, leaving the round slightly tilted. So the slide stops when it realizes it can't put a tilted, off-center bullet in a straight chamber. The jam is exactly as the OP described with the round "halfway in the chamber." My friend's gen4 had this issue when brand new, as well. After a box of ammo, or two, the extractor loosened up and this went away. I had another brand of gun that did this, and tweaking the extractor fixed it. If this specific jam doesn't stop happening (even when you limpwrist, intentionally), I would consider it a problem, and I'd look at the extractor.
Last edited:
Attend an Armorer's class sometime.
I have seen it happen numerous times in actual practice. Results in a "click" and an off-center primer hit. Kinda scary if you think about it.
Similar to the fact that "riding the slide" home can cause failure to return to full battery in any number of autoloaders. Rack it back and let it slam home...just like it's supposed to when you shoot it.
M
Last edited:
Yes, it's scary that a gun can go to 99% battery and stop for no reason, and that the manufacturer's certified armorers consider it normal. If a 17 lb spring can't close the slide the last fraction of an inch, by itself with no momentum, there's a problem. I don't care if the gun was short stroked, or the slide release was used, or the slide was ridden. If it doesn't return to full battery after the cartridge is already partway in the chamber, I'll fix it or sell it, cuz I have a lot of guns that don't have this problem, including all of my Glocks.
Last edited:
Apparently Glock doesn't think it's a problem. Or refuses to acknowledge it. I can't speak for other armorers. This is a known issue on the Glock forum. I train others to use the Glock factory recommended operating techniques to avoid trouble...and I get grief for it on this forum.
I once had a kaboom with a Glock 24 using factory fmj ammo, that I strongly suspect had an out of battery condition. I purchased it used. It had a BarSto barrel (that was a little tight-fitting), a weak or reduced power recoil spring, and an over-polished connector that occasionally wouldn't allow the trigger to reset. This piece was purchsed from a former FFL dealer and I suspect was his personal gun.
Seven rounds into the first mag...KaBoom (actually, kinda a muffled POP)... she blew the extractor out, the mag down half-way, and locked the slide up tight. This was with a $265 fully-supported match-chambered BarSto. Case-head separated and ejected (never found it). Stung my hand a little, but otherwise okay. Dropped the whole mess into a box and mailed it to Glock. They repaired it and sent it back in two weeks.
Now y'all can analyze and armchair quarterback this incident to your heart's content. Point is, assume nothing, even Glock "perfection". A catastrophic failure can happen to any firearm, and in 55+ years handling firearms, I've seen or heard most all of it. That's why "safety-first" is always a virtue. Oh, and I still own a mess of 'em Glocks.
If this information causes loss of sleep, selling your Glocks might give you some rest.
Good luck
M
Last edited:
Or maybe like the poor Rube shooting next to me. I used a knife point to clean the accumulated gunk out of the corners in the slide where the barrel/chamber locks. Failure to go into battery problems solved. He was astounded since Glocks never need to be cleaned and this was a Gen2 17 he'd bought new in 1998. Apparently it had never been cleaned; sure looked that way.
RE: Limp wristing, 9mm Glocks, weak factory ammo.
I took my 3rd Gen Glock 26 to the range today for a limp wrist test. It passed with flying colors (again).
I even took a video. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA
My point is that for a defensive pistol I refuse to accept "limp wristing" as an excuse for failures. If the gun fails because it wasn't help properly, it still failed. You cannot count on proper grip, stance, etc, if you ever have to use it in a real life, life or death (or serious bodily harm) scenario. And I apply this rule to weak (factory) FMJ practice rounds as well as premium defensive loads.
Hopefully swapping mags or ammo or whatever will get you set, OP...but since the gun has shown some failures in your hands I would be sure to put a good number of rounds through it without issue before declaring it reliable with that round.
I took my 3rd Gen Glock 26 to the range today for a limp wrist test. It passed with flying colors (again).
I even took a video. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA
My point is that for a defensive pistol I refuse to accept "limp wristing" as an excuse for failures. If the gun fails because it wasn't help properly, it still failed. You cannot count on proper grip, stance, etc, if you ever have to use it in a real life, life or death (or serious bodily harm) scenario. And I apply this rule to weak (factory) FMJ practice rounds as well as premium defensive loads.
Hopefully swapping mags or ammo or whatever will get you set, OP...but since the gun has shown some failures in your hands I would be sure to put a good number of rounds through it without issue before declaring it reliable with that round.
You can describe it as a release to the unitiated, but you will just be reinforcing a bad habit that it seems you are trying to prevent int he first place. Anyway, I don't care which term you use, and I'm not huffy. Just pointing out a weakness in your argument.
Sometimes the realization that one's own practices may be less than perfect cause that persons fur to bristle a bit...I understand, no problem.
otasan56
Member
Has anyone suggested this yet?
The Glock handguns require a very firm grip in order to function properly. Your desciption of the jam sounds like the slide didn't go back far enough from the previous discharge. The slide has to start its forward motion from its full rear position to get enough momentum to slide the cartridge forward firmly. I weak grip allows the frame/receiver to move back with the slide during recoil, causing the slide to not go back far enough. It only happened to you less than 2% out of 300 rounds. I really thing that it was caused by an occasional weak grip. Were the cartridges JHP or FMJRN??
The Glock handguns require a very firm grip in order to function properly. Your desciption of the jam sounds like the slide didn't go back far enough from the previous discharge. The slide has to start its forward motion from its full rear position to get enough momentum to slide the cartridge forward firmly. I weak grip allows the frame/receiver to move back with the slide during recoil, causing the slide to not go back far enough. It only happened to you less than 2% out of 300 rounds. I really thing that it was caused by an occasional weak grip. Were the cartridges JHP or FMJRN??
otasan56 said:
No, they don't.
PS: I just posted a video about this very thing only a few posts up from yours.
I don't see a better way to prove my point than that.No GOOD defensive pistol should have limp-wristing problems. If it does, and changing mags or ammo doesn't completely rid the problem, it's time to find a different defensive pistol. If the problem is with a Glock, that gun has a problem of some sort, that isn't the way it ought to be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2-4v_ypPw
This is the kind of jam I believe the OP is describing. If you asked Warp or me, this would be unacceptable, no matter that you limpwrist or ride the slide or use the slide release. If that was my gun, I don't care what excuses the Glock armorer classes are teaching or the internet forums are preaching. I'd fix it.
I'll say it one more time. Tight extractor. You notice how the extractor doubles as a LCI? Yeah, it has to go from flat to raised when a round slides under the claw. Unless the breechface is extremely dirty or defective, or the ammo is out of spec, this malfunction is caused by the extractor. Most likely, it'll go away within a few hundred rounds as the extractor and extractor spring break in. Limpwristing can reveal the issue, but it doesn't cause it. It has nothing to do with the magazines or the slide release.
This is the kind of jam I believe the OP is describing. If you asked Warp or me, this would be unacceptable, no matter that you limpwrist or ride the slide or use the slide release. If that was my gun, I don't care what excuses the Glock armorer classes are teaching or the internet forums are preaching. I'd fix it.
I'll say it one more time. Tight extractor. You notice how the extractor doubles as a LCI? Yeah, it has to go from flat to raised when a round slides under the claw. Unless the breechface is extremely dirty or defective, or the ammo is out of spec, this malfunction is caused by the extractor. Most likely, it'll go away within a few hundred rounds as the extractor and extractor spring break in. Limpwristing can reveal the issue, but it doesn't cause it. It has nothing to do with the magazines or the slide release.
Last edited:
faceyournation
Member
- Joined
- May 17, 2012
- Messages
- 9
Thanks everyone for all the input! Rest assured I have read each piece of advice given to me in this thread, and here are the results:
After cleaning and re-lubing the gun I took it back out to the range with some american eagle 124 (50 rounds), american eagle 115 (100 rounds), and winchester 115 (150 rounds).
Not one jam now, even when purposely limp wristing and/or shooting with one hand.
I did notice that one of my mags (the one I was originally using) is acting kind of funky when I press down on the spring to load ammo into it. Despite this it did not jam this time around..
I believe that leaves us with the problem being a dry gun or the extractor breaking in? I'm going to shoot another 500 rounds threw it next week so we will see what happens then..
And most importantly, thank you all for such great input. I really value all the time each of you put in to help me out, sincerely. I hope to continue being an active member of them form, despite my new entry into the gun world.
After cleaning and re-lubing the gun I took it back out to the range with some american eagle 124 (50 rounds), american eagle 115 (100 rounds), and winchester 115 (150 rounds).
Not one jam now, even when purposely limp wristing and/or shooting with one hand.
I did notice that one of my mags (the one I was originally using) is acting kind of funky when I press down on the spring to load ammo into it. Despite this it did not jam this time around..
I believe that leaves us with the problem being a dry gun or the extractor breaking in? I'm going to shoot another 500 rounds threw it next week so we will see what happens then..
And most importantly, thank you all for such great input. I really value all the time each of you put in to help me out, sincerely. I hope to continue being an active member of them form, despite my new entry into the gun world.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
