New Gun Safe Lessons Learned

[thekubiaks]

Lessons learned:

I absolutely should have listened to the two safe experts that post on this forum (CB900F and A1ABJD)

What I discovered is just how flimsy RSC (Residential Security Container) rated safes actually are. I think they are no stronger than a heavy duty file cabinet with fire proofing. In my case, I needed to enlarge the anchor bolt holes in the floor of the safe just a little so that I could pass the concrete anchor bolts thru the 10 gauge steel. I thought it was going to be a bear since the metal was so strong. In actuality it took about 5 seconds and the drill bit went right thru. I also had a problem with the electronic lock mechanism on the front door so I took the interior wall off the 5" thick front of the safe door, what I found was a sheet of fireproofing, a lot of air, and probably an inch of fire-proofing and 10 gauge steel on the main door. A safe is only as strong as its weakest point. Now knowing what I do now (and you can bet a criminal will have at least a good idea of the weak points), I could easily get thru the top of the safe in 1 minute TOPS with a cutting torch. If I knew a little bit about the door, I could cut thru a few points and just open the door.

Another lesson learned. All this talk of how hard it is to move the safe is over-rated. If you have no steps or stairs, then you can most likely do it yourself. The freight guy used a pallet jack and moved this 700# safe effortlessly. Once I took over, I used a colson caster type 2 piece piano mover (rented for $15) and moved the safe quite easily. Tipping the safe off of the pallet was probably the most challenging part but only took about 15 minutes. If you have steps and stairs, then disregard and get someone else, it will be sporty. The good news is that I could easily move the safe, the bad news is that I could easily move the safe. Unless you bolt the safe to the floor, then a pallet jack or (what the freight guy told me) a couple of skateboards and the bad guys will just roll your file cabinet right out.

So, in my next life, I will listen to the experts and get an AMSEC. It is still RSC rated but I think the poured concrete in the walls is far superior to a majority of the other designs, it might even slow down a plasma cutting torch. I know that Ft. Knox is also recommended by the above experts and I have no knowledge of their design so can't comment one way or the other, probably good stuff if CB900F and A1ABDJ like them. I also think that since the safes are only a speed-bump, I should consider clever hiding locations, if the crooks can't find it, they can't steal it.

In my opinion, the RSC "safe" should be looked at as a speed bump to the bad guys. If you give a couple of pros 5 - 10 minutes, they will get into the safe. If the bad guys get 5 - 10 minutes in your house and the cops aren't on the way, then you need to upgrade your security system. If you want a real safe, then I'd look for a used jewelry company safes and have someone deliver the 2 - 3000 # monster. You still need a good alarm system, and vicious barky dogs are also a plus.

Cheers.

 

[Pyzon]

I sure agree with what you say, especdially the part regarding upgrading the perimeter security so that whatever quality of safe you have is by far a secondary means of protection.

Once the bad dudes are in your house, time slows down for them drastically unless somebody comes home to run them out.

 

[General Geoff]

No safe is burglar-proof. The money you spend on a high quality RSC or bonafide safe translates into extra time it takes to break into it. 15 minutes might not seem like much, but to a smash'n'grab burglar, that's an eternity. A professional buglar team will have scoped your place, and probably learned your routines, so they'll likely know how long the house will be empty for them to crack your safe. Short of hired security, there's not much that will prevent a pro or team of pros from heisting you.

 

[tkopp]

I'm in the market for a safe, but my budget isn't several thousand dollars. A speed bump may well be all the deterrence I need to harden my firearms -- better than stuffing them in the back of a closet. Anyone 'in the know' have some suggestions for reading material on how to educate myself on safes under a grand, or even just have some direct suggestions? Would need to hold half a dozen long guns, some pistols, and ideally have some space for me to stack ammo in the bottom (which would help weigh it down and make it harder to move).

 

[hammerklavier]

I guess it comes down to this, how many people have had their guns stolen out of a locked safe? verses How many people have had their guns stolen that weren't in a locked safe?

 

[thekubiaks]

tkopp,
Do a search on this forum for contributions from CB900F and A1ABDJ. They are in the safe business and have good information. I spent a day reading their stuff and went against my better judgement and bought something a little cheaper, I'm sorry I did.

 

[svtruth]

First, I don't have one

but if I did it would be more to protect the guns from rust and access by children. But then I live in a place where we don't lock the car, door, etc.

 

[Pate]

I am also in the safe business and personally own an Amsec 6030 safe.

 

[oneounceload]

I'm in the market for a safe, but my budget isn't several thousand dollars. A speed bump may well be all the deterrence I need to harden my firearms -- better than stuffing them in the back of a closet. Anyone 'in the know' have some suggestions for reading material on how to educate myself on safes under a grand, or even just have some direct suggestions? Would need to hold half a dozen long guns, some pistols, and ideally have some space for me to stack ammo in the bottom (which would help weigh it down and make it harder to move).

Contact your local locksmith who also sells safes or a safe dealer if in your area and look for a used safe that was traded in on an upgrade - you should be able to get a nice one for the same money

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

It's safe to assume that your typical smash and grab burglar doesn't bring a cutting torch with him when he breaks into a house to get some spare money for dope.

If someone is going to come to your house with a cutting torch, then it's gonna be someone who knows your routine, knows you have guns, and has an opportunity to be in your house when you are not for an extended period of time. No safe is going to stop someone like that, short of some multi-million dollar setup.

 

[Specs]

I don't have a lot of faith in safes, strong boxes, or any other security apparatus.

Since my guns are not the only valuable thing I own, I believe that my whole house needs to protected physically and electronically from predators. I am sure that some here have extensive and valuable firearm colections, but I also am sure that these same individuals have a lot of valuables in each room beyond the gun safe closet.

The best thing you can do to protect yourself from a pro is to have a DETAILED inventory and photos, serial numbers etc in a safe deposit box, and adequate replacement value insurance. I know, it won't replace your grandfather's first 22 rifle, but replacement value insurance is a cheap security investment to help you recover financially.

And if the worst happens and someone breaks in I hope that I am a thousand miles away in my travel trailer, the police will be called from my security equipment and the burglar will be caught. I won't know about it until I come home.

 

[Guns and more]

So, in my next life, I will listen to the experts and get an AMSEC.

I wonder how many people get robbed while they are saving up for an AMSEC.
I'm sure it's a good safe, but a pro will get into it too.

Short of hired security, there's not much that will prevent a pro or team of pros from heisting you.

Indeed. As far as I know, there aren't any pros who know I even own a gun.
I'm worried about the crack head who breaks in to steal my TV and goes,.........
"Dude, he's got a safe.................knarly, man!"

 

[Jed1124]

Why not save thousands and build a recess in a wall that holds a moderately priced safe. If the thief doesn't know it's there he can't steal it. Mine holds my safe, and is completely hidden, yet offers me easy access in case of emergency. Nobody who has been in my bedroom has had any idea it is there. I think it cost me 1000 bucks in materials including the safe.

 

[Dallas Jack]

When considering security you should look at the value of your property and the probablities of a buglary and his capablities. Is your property high value or irreplaceable? Is it likely you will victumized by a burgular that has both the tools and the knowledge to breach your security? Are you most likely to be targeted by a thief looking for a quick score or a true professional willing to take the time and make the effort?

Harden your home security as much as possible then assess the level of protection you 1) need and 2) can afford. For myself it was a double set of non bumpable locks, double glazed glass, security lights and a monitored alarm along with a mid level gun safe (RSC) and a placement that made it difficult to breach without moving somewhere else. Also I don't leave my power tools out for a thief to find and use against me.
Dallas Jack

 

[Kindrox]

Contact your local locksmith who also sells safes or a safe dealer if in your area and look for a used safe that was traded in on an upgrade - you should be able to get a nice one for the same money

Amen!

 

[Avenger29]

but if I did it would be more to protect the guns from rust and access by children. But then I live in a place where we don't lock the car, door, etc.

1) The safe isn't going to protect your guns from a rust. A good preservative oil/grease, a good dehumidifier, some desiccant will go a long way towards that. Definitely agree that it helps keep children away from the stuff.

2) Please sweet jesus at least lock your house doors. Even/especially if you live out in the country. For example, I've had people in really quiet cars drive up to my door and we never knew until they honked their horn. The dogs don't always bark, or they are out playing at the other end of the property...

Some people have posted about a hidden closet kind of deal. Smart idea. I've also seen other threads where a safe is just an empty decoy and the guns are hidden very well.

 

[TehK1w1]

Just don't forget, no matter how well hidden, an unprotected gun will still not be protected against fire. For that very reason, I'll be getting another Amsec soon.

 

[usmc1371]

Since I can't afford a "real safe" yet I have one of those cheap ass sheet metal ones that was like 89 bucks. I have no illusions of it stoping a motivated robber but it keeps visiting kids away from the very few guns I keep at my house. My block is not the safest one around so my nice long guns are at my old mans house in a decent safe and in an area where no one can even remember the last time some one broke into a house. Any more the only guns I keep around are the one I carry every day "1911" and the one I use for IPSC "glock 35".
I try to make my house look like the hardest target on the block and hope that the local crack heads will pick a pad with unlocked doors, poor lighting, and no dogs. And maybe a house with some thing in the drive way nicer than a 99 ranger.