New Gunsmith Shot Setup - List of Bare Necessities

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Can any 'Smiths tell me, what would you deem to be a basic must-have list of equipment, tools, materials, and liquids/compounds necessary to start a basic gunsmithing business? Thanks.

 

[Jim K]

This has been gone over many, many times, but let's do it again.

Before getting into equipment, you should take a good, hands on, gunsmith course. That will give you the best idea as to what equipment and tools you need.

Then you need to learn how to run a business - book keeping, OSHA regs, business licenses (the FFL is the easy one), zoning laws, insurance, etc.

I know you won't want to bother with all that boring stuff so you can get to working on guns, but it really is important, and you ignore it at your risk.

So here goes. A big, sturdy work bench. A good lathe, not cheap junk. A good drill press. At least two bench grinders so you can leave one set up for polishing. A good milling machine. A barrel vise with bushings and a receiver wrench with inserts.

A good set of files, screwdrivers, hammers. At least one good bench vise and a "versa vise" type.

A few of the common chambering reamers, rougher and finisher. Taps and dies. An Oxy-acetylene and a TIG/MIG welder. A bluing setup if you can have one (don't forget OSHA and local laws on hazmat). A small heat treatment furnace.

So what kind of money are we talking? I once said $250,000. One reply called that absurdly high and said all that was needed was a screwdriver and a Dremel tool; another reply said $250k wouldn't be enough today. Don't believe the first guy unless you want to screw up a lot of guns and make a lot of armed enemies.

So the main need is capital, a good chunk for tools and the rest for rent/lease of a building (no, your basement won't work for several reasons, even if it is legal). And if you go in full time, you need money to feed yourself and family until you build up the business.

Basically, get the Brownells catalog and a good machinery catalog and have at it.

Jim

 

[ieszu]

You have to decide what "kind" of gunsmith you are going to be... the type of work dictates the equipment needed. If you are planning on doing a lot of re-finishing work, then you will need different equipment than if you are going to be building high-end 1911's. Custom rifles require an almost completely different set of tools.

For example: If you are doing rebluing you need buffers, bluing tanks, oil bath, hot water bath, parkerization tank and a good set of punches, sandpaper (of varying grits) and files (everything from needle files to drawfiles).

If you are doing 1911's, you need a good mill, proper jigs, maybe a small lathe, and the standard assortment of tools.... and possible refinishing equipment if you don't have a contract with someone to do it for you.

For building a custom rifle, you need a good lathe, band saw, wood mill, drill press, action wrenches, barrel vise, reamers, scrapers (only a few thousandths of wood removed at a time for proper fit), good tool bits, drying stand, files, refinishing equipment if you don't have a contract with someone, sandpaper and lots of cutting fluid (I like kerosene for my reamers).

For all these things you will need a good table, vise, measuring equipment, and a good deal of patience and a love of Cheerios and ramen noodles

So you see, price can vary from about $10K (for the 1911's) to over $80K for custom rifles.... and it could go up even more from there depending on what else you want to do.

So this is not something to take lightly.

 

[rcmodel]

It seems to me if one were going to make custom rifles, or do re-bluing, or build hi-end 1911's, etc.
They would almost certainly have to already know what tools they need to do it with!

Asking what tools you need to open a gunsmith shop is about like asking what tools you need to set up a Boeing 747 overhaul shop.

rcmodel

 

[ieszu]

rcmodel - I understand your point.... but when I opened my first place, I had to consider what kind of work I would advertise for. I chose custom rifles, accurizing jobs and general repair work. When I open my new place, I want to expand to custom 1911's. I have no need for rebluing work... I have a friend from gunsmithing school who does excellent work, and it is almost all he does. I sent the work to him and warrantied it.... it just isn't worth the investment in cash and time for me, when I had someone who could beat me in price, and I could focus on more lucrative jobs.

But yes, if you have to ask what you need to do gunsmithing, you should really take some classes or become an apprentice.

 

[koginam]

For basic repair and replacement jobs the big machines are hardly used, you first diagnose the problem or in most cases problems (when one thing goes wrong it affects other parts which also need to be replaced) then repair or replace the part, fit and check function for safety and reliability. In my shops the first thing done is a complete cleaning which solves a lot of problems right a way.
Basic hand tools including Hollow ground screwdrivers in many blade widths, Files and lots of them, hammers including brass, rawhide, rubber mallet, and ball peen, vise with safe jaws, Books and more books, drill press, lots of jigs and fixtures for the type of smithing you want to do. strong work bench, comfortable stool, dremil tool, magnifier with light, vise grips, small open end wrenches, cleaning tank, boxes for storing disassembled guns, repair tags, measuring tools, taps, break cleaner, rags, grinder and polishing wheels, stones, I'm sure i missed a few things but someone will point them out to you, Jim is right about the business classes they are very important. As far as the $250k is concerned it may be high unless you plan on getting machinery and doing more then gunsmithing like selling guns and related items.
Good luck I have been able to earn a very good living as a gunsmith.

 

[Jim K]

IIRC, the $250k response was to what would be needed to set up a full service, fully equipped, gunsmithing shop (not including a retail gun sales operation). Most gunsmiths don't start with a complete shop. But you do need to be able to do most of the work yourself. If you send out too much, your customers will soon figure out that they can do without you, and send their work elsewhere themselves. And of course, you take the heat for delays, bad work, etc., by someone over whom you have no control.

The easiest operation to farm out is bluing/refinishing, provided there is someone you can trust to do a good job in a reasonable time (lotsaluck!). Some specialized areas (like shotgun rib replacement) almost have to be farmed out as they are just too difficult and too much trouble to set up for the occasional job.

But if you need to farm out stuff like scope installation, bolt bending, rebarrelling and the like, you need to either expand or get out of the business.

As to specialization, fine. But that is the area where there is the most fierce competition. At last count, there were 42,258,346 1911smiths building 1911's. Seriously, there is a lot of competition for that trade, for custom rifles, etc. True most of the 1911smiths (I can't call them gunsmiths or even pistolsmiths - they work on only one gun) are small time, and some are not even competent, just people with files who once read a book. There are not enough general gunsmiths who will do the dog work the specialists scorn.

There may be work you don't want. Generally, fixing old revolvers (the subject crops up here regularly) is frustrating, money-losing work. Find a nice way to tell good ol' Joe that the Tramps Terror he inherited from his grandfather can't be fixed and to hang it on the wall. And learn to turn down lawyer bait, like reworking old surplus rifles to hot modern cartridges, or fixing up Damascus barrel shotguns to fire superhot 3" Magnums.

Jim

 

[ieszu]

As to specialization, fine. But that is the area where there is the most fierce competition. At last count, there were 42,258,346 1911smiths building 1911's. Seriously, there is a lot of competition for that trade, for custom rifles, etc. True most of the 1911smiths (I can't call them gunsmiths or even pistolsmiths - they work on only one gun) are small time, and some are not even competent, just people with files who once read a book. There are not enough general gunsmiths who will do the dog work the specialists scorn.

There may be work you don't want. Generally, fixing old revolvers (the subject crops up here regularly) is frustrating, money-losing work. Find a nice way to tell good ol' Joe that the Tramps Terror he inherited from his grandfather can't be fixed and to hang it on the wall. And learn to turn down lawyer bait, like reworking old surplus rifles to hot modern cartridges, or fixing up Damascus barrel shotguns to fire superhot 3" Magnums.

I agree 100%... I do not work on Raven's/Lorcins or another of that kind.... the liability would kill me. I have even turned down a job for a custom Carcano... the guy wanted it in .300 WSM

However, if you are good at what you can do, and can do it in a good amount of time for a good cost, at a good cost... then I see no problem with advertising the specialization, kind of a "Certified, full time gunsmith - Specializes in 1911's and custom rifles"

It doesn't say you don't do other work, only that you really want to advertise what you can do in that area.

 

[redneckrepairs]

Well i am not a smith , however i hobby work . My costs have run to about 10k for tools , tooling and scotch to tell someone that no in fact i wont work on their whatzat . I have a cheap mill , a cheap lathe , several grinders , and can in fact do about anything to MY guns i would want . I still send a lot out to a real smith . I am in fact today only limited by common sense as to what i can do well that and the fact i have not picked up a tig welder yet lol . I have a friend that is " gunsmith " enough that he builds rifles for the hunt of a lifetime org . as well as du ect.. The equipment we own is not far different , nor is the tooling . However he makes good guns because he cares , i mod guns because i could give a crap and will just farmer one up . ( farmer it up includes building tapered axel spindles when no one stocks it on the stepdads small lathe as i cannot run the big one ( it will take 30" + thro the jaws )and i have left it alone ) .
I have seen some smiths that have little more than hand tools , i have seen some with cnc machines who can program them , I am not a gunsmith , i am a hobbyist with enough money to buy cheap tools . If i knew enough i could do anything , and with the big lathe even on artillery barrels , however i dont know enough . and would not try , ill regulate it to turning big stuff for equipment . If you truly want to be a " smith " then you have two options , either go to school such as trinidad state or colrodao state . or you go to work for a smith at what he can pay you ( which will likely be less than minimum ) . If you want to learn on your own well ok go buy a good bastard mill file or a dozen , start with an inch and a half steel rod and file it to a flat .10 of an inch across the widest point . Mic it for flat . after that let us know and some will give you another task . Unless and untill you can do that dont mention smith .. do what i do ... shut up and learn by what you can read .

 

[koginam]

Jim
I find myself agreeing with you on most things you post but the cost to set up a new shop is less then $250K. I can find a surplus mill for $2,500 Bridgeport j head, and lathe for $3000 Hendy W/taper attachment, Hand tools $650 craftsman, grinder/buffer sears $200, bench $200 for material, parts boxes $50, shelving $250, dremil $125, Rent 1500 sq ft. $9600 per year, elec. $1500 per year, insurance $2200 per year, assorted jigs and fixtures, $4000, Basic parts selection $4000, Misc. $2000, first year wages $60,000 for one full time and one part time employee I was going to add some inventory it would go up but for a basic repair shop that should cover it.

 

[RogersPrecision]

I'd suggest starting out part-time with a minimal investment.

 

[PTK]

For the real world setup of a smithing shop, you would need at least $50k for a very basic shop, perhaps half a million for a "does it all" shop.

What really stinks is, that's just for the tools and supplies. For employees, training, etc., you're looking a whole lot more as well.

See why most gunsmiths are focused on one area and work alone?

 

[ranger335v]

"...what would you deem to be a basic must-have list of equipment, tools, materials, and liquids/compounds necessary to start a basic gunsmithing business? "

Not trying to be a wise azz at all but I wonder...are you seriously considering setting up a gunsmith shop? Seems that if you must ask us what you will need to do so means that you have too little experiece at this time to be a smith.

Get some education. Work for someone else for awhile. Then, with the skills you learn, you will know what tools you need to do the work you are comfortable with and you will know what you need. At this point it just sounds like hopeful day dreaming.

Good luck!

 

[krs]

Kog,
how are you going to charge the customer for the $30. repair job that you break a $60. cobalt mill bit trying to do?

 

[koginam]

I just retired after being in the business for over 40 years over 30 as my own boss, I treated it as a business not a hobby, I started out as a general gunsmith and built the business up and expanded, it wasn't easy long hours and a few lean years, but I stuck to it and grew into other sporting goods.
But I ran the gun shop and hired a manager to take care of the rest of it. After selling the business I signed a 5 year no competition agreement which stops me from going into any sporting goods business. Now I travel with my wife and visit every gunsmith shop I can find as well as being involved in the gunsmith apprenticeship program. I have been their and done it. I am not trying to argue with anyone but I have done it and will do it again when I get tired of traveling. If you see a problem with my prices look up the cost of equipment and tools for yourself I admit I'm not talking about new machines but well maintained surplus. I based the cost of the building from my real estate agent and the cost of fixtures and jigs from my own experience as well as what it would cost me to make my own, As far as my prices I charged $50 per hr. with the first hour including cleaning, I take care of my tools and don't break many, they get dull and are resharpened. I think a smith could make a living if he just did repair and replacment work he wouldn't need the big equipment.