New guy with an 870

[Speed Racer]

First post - great message board. Thanks for such a wonderul source of information.

My SG - Remington 870 Express Magnum. 4+1 with synthetic furniture, 18.5" barrel. Unmodified. Your basic $260 special.

I'm rather new to the SG, so I've spent a good two weeks reading old posts here - again, really good stuff, folks. Still, I have a couple of questions specific to me and my 870 that I'm sure you can help me with ...

1. Short stock - I'm interested in putting a 13" LOP stock on my 870. I'm 6'3" with long arms, but I still feel like I'm stretching to run the bolt. I've read a few old posts regarding these, and I will likely go with the Remington Youth stock to keep a factory look. Has anyone else done this mod on their HD SG? Got any feedback with the smaller stock? Do I need any special tools to perform this swap?

2. Sling (back) - as you know, there are no provisions for a sling on the Express Magnum 870. Do I drill the synthetic stock and attach the swivel like that? I guess I'm concerned about the synthetic stock holding the hardware.

3. Sling (front) - If I modify the mag tube with a one-round extension and go with a side sling attachment, do I have to worry about anchoring the end cap? Will this come lose with firing? If I don't add an extension right away, can I just sneak a side sling attachment under the stock end cap? [I'm thinking of adding the Surefire light sometime soon, thus the side sling attachment.]

4. Extra ammo - I have a side saddle on my Mossberg 500, and I sometimes am distracted when finding my front sight (bead). Is there a high quality (read: not the $5 elastic sock) way to hold ammo on the stock?

5. Ghost Ring Sights - If I want to add these later, what is the typical price for installation? And, can most local gun smiths handle this job. I'm thinking MMC here.

Thanks again for reading this and to those of you that respond.

 

[sm]

Welcome To THR !

Congrats on the 870.
Gonna let those that have synthetic, use GR and such answer your questions.
I'm the one still using blue and wood ,a front bead,leather sling, and no ammo on gun.
I hear they have indoor plumbing now-a-days... [kiddding]
I know Dave...back in the corner I go...

 

[Black92LX]

5. Ghost Ring Sights - If I want to add these later, what is the typical price for installation? And, can most local gun smiths handle this job. I'm thinking MMC here.

i think if you find yourself in a true HD situation that aiming with some AA proabably isn't a big deal. maybe if you are shooting slugs at the guy. i would just get a fiber optic site that sidesd on the rib for like 5 bucks to give you a little better visualization in lower light. but that is just my opinion and everyone likes to do things differently.

The shorter stock might be helpful incase the BG gets a little close and he needs a stock slap. i imagine you could get that shorter stock around a little faster.

 

[Al Thompson]

Hi SR, welcome to THR!

I have 36 inch sleeve and agree with your choice on the shorter stock. Only trick is using phillips head screw driver to remove the recoil pad and a large flat tip for the stock bolt.

 

[laynlow]

You mean you want yours to look like this?



870 PM (I use a CQB SOP sling that is not in the picture)

 

[Brian Dale]

Howdy, Speed Racer! I'm one of those guys with wood-stocked autoloaders. Lots of others here know more than I do about the kind of tailoring you're doing. I just wanted to say Welcome to THR.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Welcome aboard,SR.

A few things...

You SHOULD be able to reach the forearm easily. Where are you mounting it on your shoulder?

I'm slightly smaller, and I could put my left hand on the mag cap if I wanted to.

A short stock is no great handicap, Cabela's has the Hogue shortie on sale right now.

Slings inside are risky, too much chance of snagging. Slings outside are essential. I've not mounted a stud on a synthetic stock yet, so I'll leave that oine to those better qualified to answer.

I strongly recommend a clamp with any extension. Much stronger, and shrinks slug groups nicely. Up to you as to style of sling and stud.

Side Saddles pose no great distraction with training, keep the bases down. I know of no other method of keeping ammo on the shotgun w/o drawbacks.

GRs are a nice to have, but not essential for inside work. A little dab of yellow paint on the bead helps for low light shooting. I use Testor's Bright Yellow enamel. Doesn't last forever, but a bottle good for hundreds of aplications is just a few dollars.

 

[kudu]

Welcome Speed Racer, like Happy Bob and re1973 said, I'll let the others that have their HD shotguns answer your Qs. My guns are wood and blue also.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

Side Saddles pose no great distraction with training, keep the bases down. I know of no other method of keeping ammo on the shotgun w/o drawbacks.

slugs, i think should be kept base up, as they are more likely to be inserted directly into the chamber. a properly designed butt cuff is just as good as a sidesaddle, IMHO.

 

[Speed Racer]

Thanks for all of the great replies so far.

laynlow - actually, the PG, 2-round extension, and side saddle are things I'm trying to stay away from. I want this 870 to be a flashlight with a flamethrower attached. This is obviously a HD gun, so I want it light and easy to maneuver with.

Dave - I have no problem running the bolt with the "proper" mount. In fact, I can touch the tip of the barrel with ease (with the stock 14-inch LOP stock). It just "feels" like my off hand is going too far away from my chest/centerline. I read the shotgun articles by Jayman, and I like his ideas regarding the advantages of the shorter LOP stocks on HD guns. I respect your opinion on the sling. That will be the last item added. I doubt that this 870 sees GRs - I was just looking for some info if that mod appeals to me later. Does anyone use the 1-round extension (Vang Comp or Wilson Tactical)? It seems to even things up in the front when used with the Suregrip forearm.

black92LX - I'm also in Cinci. And, I gather from your name that you are a Mustang guy. I own three - we should get together sometime.

To all you guys with the wood/blue 870s - Thanks for the warm welcome, and good luck with your shotguns!

 

[Black92LX]

Speed Racer you have a PM

 

[laynlow]

Now that I am home, I can type more of a reply.

As for a sling...

My 870 came with a hole drilled in the synthetic stock for attaching a swivel. If I were you though, I would purchase a sling that mounts to the stock with bands instead of a swivel mount.

Check out www.cqbsolutions.com for pictures of the slings I am referring to.

On the front mount, just put the adapter between the mag extension or the end cap if you don't have an extension. You can see mine in the photo. These plates have a ball detent in them so they lock down the same as the factory cap. They should not come loose if installed properly.

I know of two ways to store shells in/on the stock without the stretch band adapters you don't want. The first is a stock by speedfeed. I have a pistol grip speedfeed on mine, and it will hold an extra 4 rounds. In reality, these four shells are more for decoration than anything else. They don't release from the stock consistently, they are in an awkward position if you combat load with the weapon shouldered (I do) and they are very difficult to index correctly. The second way is to get a skeleton stock that has shell storage in the middle. I believe choate makes one, but I don't know for sure.

Ghost rings will run around $200 and up I would imagine. One of the reasons I ordered a PM instead of an express was the option to have factory GR sights on the gun. I didn't want to do it later and have to refinish the barrel. Wilson makes a front sight that will epoxy over your bead, but no matter what you are going to have to drill and tap the receiver AFAIK.

One last thing -- I carry the 00 on the side saddle brass up for two reasons. One, they are less likely to work their way out under recoil, and two they must be brass up to properly index the shell for a combat load. If you have the brass down, a combat load is prohibitively long and awkward. With the brass up, I can index the shell with my thumb and index finger, and quickly reach over the receiver and place the shell through the port. I keep the slugs facing brass down so that I don't mistakenly combat load one thinking it is 00. Also, I keep the gun "cruiser ready," that is magazine loaded, chamber empty, hammer down. I download the magazine two rounds and this gives me the option to load a slug for the first shot. With the weapon shouldered, you would want the brass down to quickly load the slug normally. Those are the reasons why I do what I do. I would be interested in learning why Dave and Andrew suggest otherwise.

BTW Dave Mc, I have the action on my 870 smoothed up nicely now. Thanks for the advice. I imagine after the 400 round shotgun school I am attending in a couple weeks it will be even better.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Sorry, SR, I misunderstood. As long as there's bend in the elbow, I see no advantage in one position for the support hand. Let it fall where comfortable for starters, and stick to one position when training.

As for brass down/brass up....

In the days when I had to shoot 60 rounds for a match, I noted no probs of shells working their way out.YMMV.

As for loading techniques, reaching under the weapon with the firing hand to grab a round, moving it to lie parallel for the first and second fingers with the base pushed by the thumb into the mag OR slammed into the ejection port for a "Combat" load when the mag's empty seems easy and glitch resistant. Not hard with the support hand either.

I also grab from the front of the SS first, and the slugs are the two in back.

Laynlow, BA/UU/R and feel that thing polish in...

 

[Guyon]

I have put a sling stud in a synthetic stock, and I list my procedure below. However, let me go ahead and say that it may be easier to just buy a stock with a sling stud already in it. I've bought a couple of Remington synthetic stocks with the stud--one on eBay and one on closeout at Wally World.

To install the stud:

Remove the stock. It's easier to work with if it's off the gun.

Drill a very small pilot hole where you want the stud. It's easier to keep a small bit straight and perpendicular. Also, this pilot hole will center and guide the rest of the bits.

Choose a bit with the same diameter as the stud's top (the part that sticks out) and just BARELY (I'm talking millimeters here) drill into the stock to make a seat for the stud. A drill press might be wise here to control depth. Without this depression, the stud kind of sits up on a hump. I found a Black and Decker's Pilot Point bit useful here, because the tip is not convex. As a result, I got a flatter impression in the stock for this seat.

Now choose a bit with the same diameter as the stud shank, and drill to the appropriate depth. Again, you might want to use a drill press. However, I simple wrapped electrical tape around the bit to make a kind of depth gauge/stop.

Finally, choose a bit slightly smaller than the threads of the stud and finish the hole. Make sure the bit is small enough that the threads get a decent bite.

Don't overtighten the stud. I really cranked down on my first attempt and in the last quarter turn, the stock cracked along the molded seam. I had to buy a replacement on eBay. Got it right the second time. My main point here is that there's just not as much give with the synthetic as you would have with a wooden stock.

Like I said, it might be easier to just buy a factory synthetic stock with a stud. Remington makes them.

IIRC, Brownells sells a bit with varying diameters for a one-drill procedure. Not sure how it works on synthetic though.

 

[Bix]

Welcome to a good place, SR.

1. I use a wilson combat 2 round extension, without a clamp. I run it in steel matches with 18-25 round COFs, and it doesn't loosen up on me. Note that the barrel I use has a detent ball in the barrel ring. I suspect that your express barrel does not have the detent ball, and, in that case, the extension will likely turn out. There are several solutions to this problem, including the previously mentioned magazine clamp.

2. Eagle Industries makes higher quality (and higher capacity) butt cuffs for 870s. If you wait a couple weeks, I may post a review.

http://www.eagleindustries.com/mainprod.asp?scv=0
(select "accessories/weapon")

3. I'm not going to embarrass myself by explaining the very amateur procedure I used to put a sling stud in my synthetic stock. Guyon's advice looks good to me. I've not had an issue with the synthetic stock holding the stud.


Enjoy the new SG!

 

[JNewell]

6-5 here, but prefer shorter stocks on most shoulder arms. I installed a Remington youth buttstock but took it off -- need to find a different way to reduce pull without this problem: the youth stock (at least the one I got) is essentially identical to the standard stock, just 1" shorter.

Well, duh, you're thinking, but stay with me.

The height of the comb is the same, the angle is the same...so when the buttstock got shorter, if I keep my head in about the same position, the comb got higher. The comb was already borderline too high for comfortable shooting (for me), and this made it really hard to get my cheek low enough to get a decent sight picture (SG still has the brass bead front sight.

I haven't changed anything yet...I could either get a stock with a lower comb (or modify an existing buttstock)...or if I were to install other sights, the problem would get solved because the height of the sights would go up relative to the comb.

One note about magazine extensions (and forearm-mounted lights). Go ahead and accessorize the heck out of your SG, then spend several days holding the thing up, fully loaded, in training. You will *really* wish that you had the stock forearm and no mag extensions. Ask me how I know...

That doesn't mean that they aren't useful, but you are adding a good deal of weight at a point where the leverage works against you. Something to think about, anyway...

 

[Speed Racer]

Thanks again for all the great info here.

I'm glad to see that I wasn't being too careful when it came to slinging the synthetic stock on the Exprress. A little craftsmanship is in order.

JNewell - I really appreciate your weight comments. I have a 2-round extension from Wilson's that I haven't installed for that reason. I trial-fit the pipe (several times actually), shouldered the 870, and it felt like I tied a 5 pound bag of crap on the barrel. I think the light is worth the trouble. For a pure HD gun, I'm not sold on the 2-round extension.

Bix - thanks for the heads up on the Eagle stuff. That's what I was looking for.

I see this 870 configured with the short stock, the Surefire forearm, and the extra ammo cuff. I may install the sling hardware so the sling can be added quickly if needed. With the other goodies ... I guess I'll have to get another, maybe an 870 Police Magnum, to trick out further.

Thanks folks. I'll get back to you when my project is "finished".

 

[Brian Dale]

Don't have to wait 'til your project is finished to hang out and discuss things, of course.

There's also a wealth of interesting stuff at http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/

TFL closed last December, but the material is still up, and the search function works. You'll notice some familiar names if you go there; the link at the top of this shotguns page might already have put you in contact with that forum.

Glad to have you aboard.

 

[Guyon]

IMO, depth control is everything when installing the sling stud in synthetic. The seat has to be just a couple-three millimeters (just enough to make a flat impression on the hump of the stock), or else the hole for your sling swivel sits too low.

I recommend drilling a very short hole (here again, you don't want to drill too deep) to match the length and diameter of the shank--ie. the shaft above the threads--of the sling stud out of a concern for splitting. As I state above, that molded seam can crack. I learned the hard way.

One caveat about drilling. Some really sharp bits will "bite" into the material and pull the bit in further than you wanted. If you aren't careful, you'll wind up with a hole that is too deep and big. A drill press is the only real safeguard against such a mistake.

My bet is that Remington has a drill bit that does it all in one fell swoop.

 

[Guyon]

Here's my HD set up. I hunt with 870s, so I stuck with the longer fore end (and resulting 4 shot sidesaddle) because I like the consistency of feel when switching between guns. That's a Choate mag extension, and an Insight Technologies tac light and mount.