New guy with some sizing issues

[atlasman]

personally, if you already have the Lock and load setup I would have went with the hornady single stage, that way you have the same quick release collets for both presses...

Honestly, not much of a concern to me. Just felt like trying the Lee.

on the expander ball it sounds like you need to contact the maker of the dies and get them to fix it or send you a new expander.

It sounds like no one is surprised at my troubles with these types of dies.......why do they make them that way if they are not reliable?


Now I have 3 sets of Hornady's new dies that are worthless?

 

[atlasman]

That's why I recommend bushing type FL dies whenever possible, because they are designed to avoid using an expander ball.

What are "bushing type" FL sizer dies?


How are they different?


Who makes them?

 

[Innovative]

Bushing Dies vs. the Expander Ball

Here's the difference ...​

Shooters that are concerned with precision shooting make their handloads fit their chamber as close as possible, and perfectly resized handloads will NEVER develop headspace separations. Precision handloading helps cases last longer, because it reduces case stretching.

The expander ball can stretch your case slightly longer than your chamber (as reported). This is no problem to some shooters. However, it's far better to make handloads fit perfectly, because it provides the best accuracy.

If your cases are resized too short, they'll chamber and go BANG just fine. But these cases get stretched too much when they're fired. That often makes the brass paper thin, and each shot brings you closer to a headspace separation.

If your cases are sized too long , it can require forcing the bolt closed. You should not be able to "feel" the bolt close on a round - not even a little bit. The precision shooter always wants concentric handloads. When you jam the rounds into the chamber even a little, your concentric handloads become anything but concentric.

Due to the different neck thickness of brass, the expander ball is ideal for basic reloading. It almost always provides your case with a uniform ID, and you don't need to worry about the varying neck thickness of your brass. Occasionally reloaders will turn down the expander ball to compensate for loose bullet tension or neck stretching. However, no amount of case chamfering can fix neck tension problems. If neck tension is too much, it ruins concentricity (case run-out).

The expander ball works because your resizing die first reduces the case too far, then the expander pulls the brass in the "opposite" direction to the perfect case ID. This "extra" working of the brass will harden your case necks far quicker than a bushing type die that only moves the brass directly where it needs to be.

The nice thing about handloading is that almost everyone can participate to the degree they are interested. It's not rocket science, but we can all learn something new in the pursuit of better rifle accuracy.

- Larry

 

[243winxb]

NO.This is not possible. >

Now I have 3 sets of Hornady's new dies that are worthless?

It is possible to have a bad shell plate making it look like all 3 die sets are bad. (Not setting the shoulder back enough so the rounds will chamber in your rifles.

 

[atlasman]

Not bumping the shoulder back at all, but just keeping it where it was when fired, as long as it chambers easily, is not a problem though.

I would less concerned if that was all that happened. The randomness of a couple cases being distorted and unable to chamber is what bothers me the most. I don't want to have to cycle EVERY round through my guns after I size it just to be sure it didn't get longer by mistake.

 

[atlasman]

OK, you just said they work fine. So what is the problem again? I don't get it. If your rounds chamber and the bolt closes without undue force, you are good to go. Stop worrying.

If your shell holder hits the die on the upstroke, that is full length sizing. You can't get any more than that. If this is not right, you will need a different die, but like I said above, what's the problem if they work?

When you need to bump a shoulder is when the bolt won't close easily.
You can chamber some right after sizing to make sure they will chamber and the bolt close without undue pressure.

I think you missed some points along the way...........it's all in the thread and I really don't feel like retyping the whole story.

If all the rounds I sized chambered easily I would not be worried.

 

[Innovative]

I would be less concerned if that was all that happened. The randomness of a couple cases being distorted and unable to chamber is what bothers me the most. I don't want to have to cycle EVERY round through my guns after I size it just to be sure it didn't get longer by mistake.

atlasman ......

That's one of the best reasons to measure the clearance of your handloads "at the shoulder" with the Digital Headspace Gauge.

 

[atlasman]

That's one of the best reasons to measure the clearance of your handloads "at the shoulder" with the Digital Headspace Gauge.

Larry..........I have your gauge, it's a great little tool. Having said that I don't want to have to measure EVERY round I size in any way. I want to feel comfortable enough with my die settings to measure every once in awhile just to be sure but not fret over every pull of the lever.



Could you or anyone else please explain my choices of die types?


I have FL sizers with expander balls in them (Hornady)



I am confused about the differences in neck sizers, collet, bushing and body dies.


Maybe some of them are the same.........or need to be used together.



Sorry, I just didn't realize there were that many different dies.

 

[Innovative]

No problem ....

atlasman .......

You only need to use the Digital Headspace Gauge to adjust (or verify) your die height setting ONE time at the beginning of each reloading session. The Digital Headspace Gauge is also helpful to diagnose handloading problems. As an "extra" benefit, it can also measure the exact bullet jump to your rifling.

I've found that many reloaders are somewhat aware of their headspace clearance, but very few of them consider case width. When you can see the clearance "at the shoulder" that YOUR handloads have in YOUR particular chamber, it avoids the problems that many reloaders run into.

- Larry

 

[atlasman]

You only need to use the Digital Headspace Gauge to adjust (or verify) your die height setting ONE time at the beginning of each reloading session.

Apparently I haven't made myself clear enough ........I checked my die setting ONE time......I have contact with the shellplate and MOST of the cases I ran came back unchanged and a random COUPLE cases got WORSE to the extent they would not chamber. Without checking EVERY case after sizing I would never know which of these cases were the "unlucky" ones...........until I went to close the bolt in my stand.

That is unacceptable and what I am trying to remedy. It appears the expander ball is my problem stretching the shoulder as it withdraws (perhaps it's a lube issue as well because of the randomness). Either way I am waiting for an explanation of the other die options to make my best choice to move forward.

 

[k4swb]

I don't load alot of ammo for hunting but EVERY round gets chambered in my hunting guns and also my personal defense guns. Any round I might use to take a life or defend one gets checked. EVERY ROUND.
Yes this takes time but I'd rather do this before I needed to.

 

[Innovative]

Tech Support ....

atlasman .........

It can be a bit difficult providing effective tech support in a forum, especially after 60 posts. You might become an old man before solving a problem like this.

It's nice to share this info with other shooters, but it just takes too long reading all of the previous posts. Even email support would be much quicker than this.

Give me a call sometime, and you'll find that I take ALL phone calls myself whenever I'm in the office (which seems like all the time).

- Larry

 

[243winxb]

Others have had the same probleml. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=494996

 

[918v]

I am confused about the differences in neck sizers, collet, bushing and body dies.

Neck sizers only size the neck. They leave the body of the case alone.

Body dies only size the body. They leave the neck alone.

Collet dies only size the neck, but not by swaging the neck down through a small diameter orifice. Instead, they compress the neck around a fixed diameter mandrel.

Bushing dies come in two flavors: Neck and FL. The neck die only sizes the neck with interchangable bushings. They come in .001" increments so you can size the neck down to exactly the diameter you want. FL dies size the body and the neck using the same bushings. These dispense with the need for an expander ball.

Whats the difference between these and standard dies? Standard dies size the case too much and then expand it back to whatever diameter by dragging the expander ball through the neck. The above specialty dies are different because they size the case just enough, just right, and some of them are infinitely adjustable to boot. They make sizing easy.