New Life for an Old Warhorse

[jrhines]

This was my Spring project. A client came in with her deceased Dad's Colt 1911, vintage 1947. He was a Navel aviator and carried the pistol in his career. He kept it and had it chromed (Oh well, it's his pistol) and passed it on to his daughter, who uses it to shoot pins. She brought it to me for a detail strip & lube and I told her that if she wanted to continue to shoot it, let me remove anything that might be worn or overdue and rebuild the gun with new parts. She wanted no changes to the frame, slide, sights or grips, and all parts to be retained so the gun could be returned to "Dad's specs". I installed a Kart NM barrel & bushing, Caspian hammer, trigger & sear, and replaced the grip safety with a beavertail model. New FP and heavy spring, Sprinco Recoil reducer, Ed Brown slide stop pin, EGW replacement pin set and FP stop. Lastly, I installed a Wolff 16.5 lb variable recoil spring. I set the trigger up to just under 3 lbs with about .040" of overtravel. Fitted up 3 new WC mags and ran about 200 rounds through it for break-in, no problems. Good for another 60 years... The trigger profile shows the trigger as it came to me (top, dark trace), and as I left it (lower, light trace). The verticle axis is in lbs. and the horizontal axis is in inches (full scale is 1/10 inch.

 

[RogersPrecision]

A trigger job via oscilloscope?
LOL! I learn new stuff on the 'net every day!

 

[RogersPrecision]

And a Caspian Damascus hammer?????
With a Caspian long, solid steel Damascus trigger????

Does that help?

Poor gal..........

 

[Old Fuff]

That's a great 25 yard group...

 

[jrhines]

Just a little Bling-Bling...

I wanted to refinish the whole thing with Ivory grips, she is a somewhat striking, tall blond. The trigger profile is done using a device called a Dvorak Instruments TriggerScan System. It accurately measures the physical trigger displacement (how far it moves) and the force needed. For my nickel, it is the only way to talk about the quality of how a particular trigger performs. All the hyperbole about "breaks like a glass rod", creepy, gritty, "smooth as butter" is just opinion, the TS gives you the numbers. YMMV

 

[jrhines]

OF, I assure you it is the shooter...

...and not the gun. I'd like to take it out and shoot some groups, maybe this coming week. I think I can hit a bowling pin with it...

 

[RogersPrecision]

jr,
This might get me banned, but......
I'm struggling for words......
......
.........
............
heck, I give up.

 

[jrhines]

Spit it out Chuck...

...What more do you need beyond "Poor Gal"? My bubble is popped if that's what your looking for.

 

[PotatoJudge]

I've got to ask how much of this was requested by the customer and how much was done to your taste. I wonder because the damascus is way out of place on a gun like that as is the beavertail. Might help to polish the beavertail similar to the frame.

Now so long as your work makes it a better shooter all is well IF you kept the original parts and didn't alter the frame or slide.

With a match barrel and bushing (fit well on a tight gun) the gun should be much more capable than the target shows. The shooting is fine, but not representative of what the gun is capable of. Not to worry, I'm the limiting factor on all my guns too.

I like the trigger graph and would really appreciate a printout like that after a trigger job. Another thread on what, graphically, translates to a good trigger would be very interesting.

 

[RogersPrecision]

I guess I'm feeling cantankerous, so I'll reply.

You did a trigger job that breaks at less than 3 lbs and used the HEAVIEST trigger on the market.
You claim that a user's opinion of a trigger is just hyperbole and that some rooney device tells the true story.

First off, there is no way anyone can produce a crisp trigger at less than 3 lbs, using a 16lb recoil spring, in conjunction with that particular trigger. Just simply ain't possible. Have you dropped the slide on an empty chamber?

Second, it sounds like the poor gal just wanted a 'tune up'. Now she is bearing the cost of exotic and less capable Damascus parts.

You fit a Kart barrel and now show us a 1 1/2" group at 10yds that pleases you?

Are you a gunsmith, sir?

I guess I should have just passed on commenting here, but now I'm committed.

 

[Clipper]

I'm with you, Chuck...Almost (I said ALMOST) makes me understand what the milsurp snobs are whining about bubba guns...

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Do you have any pre-work pictures?

I find the history interesting and would be curious to see what the father had the gun setup like.

 

[DnPRK]

Daughter must have huge hands to reach that looooooong trigger.

 

[1911Tuner]

A client came in with her deceased Dad's Colt 1911, vintage 1947.

If it's got "United States Property" on it...and it looks like it does...it wasn't made in '47. The contracts ended in 1945.

Looks pretty rough. Too bad it got refinished.

 

[jrhines]

"Goverment Model", not...

"United States Property", S/N C228xxx. Blue Book Serialization lists C222001 as the starting number in '47 and ending with C231999. The nickel plating has seen lots of wear, probably done at a bumper shop in the 60's. It does not look like any care was taken with the prep, the slide serrations are polished smooth and the Colt logo is partially obscured.
Am I a gunsmith? Hmmm, After 14 years of working on guns, I would say no, but I'm still learning, most likely with a long way to go.
As for the TriggerScan being "some rooney device", I can only presume that your past expirence using the instrument left something to be desired. It would be interesting to know where and how it disappointed you. As for myself, being an admitted novice at this, I need all the technology I can get. YMMV
Oh, if anyone is interested, I'll be glad to post some other profiles of "Triggers I have known!"

 

[Old Fuff]

My monitor isn't good enough to make out the markings on the frame or the serial number. But the marking on the right side of the slide is correct for a Colt commercial Government Mode made during the 1947 era. The grips are obviously USGI, and not the ones that came with the gun.

If I was doing the extensive restoration and up-grade work that went into the project, I would have, with the owner's permission, had the plating stripped and then re-plated, blued or Parkerized - depending on the owner's preference. As it is the pistol looks unnecessarily shabby in my opinion.

While some (including myself) have taken some shots at the work, it may represent what the owner wanted. If she is satisfied then that's all that matters. While I would have done some things differently, what I would do is a moot point.

I find jrhines' method of checking the trigger pull to be interesting. I've heard of it before but this is the first time I've seen it actually used. But Mr. Rogers is correct in saying that the trigger itself is too heavy for this application, and the fingerpiece should be lightened, or the trigger pull increased to 5 pounds or so.

 

[jrhines]

A teachable moment is at hand...

OF, make me smart, as I said, I'm still learning. Why the lighter trigger or increased pull? And why the question if I had dropped the slide on an empty chamber? And, yes, it is what she wanted, Dad's gun with new parts. Yeah the Damascus was my suggestion (right after telling her to get a new SVI & retire this gun to the memento wall in the den). She liked it, 'nuff said!

 

[XavierBreath]

I would like to point out that there have been Naval Aviators since WWII. Many have carried personally acquired sidearms in lieu of the Victory models they could be issued from the PRs. Hell, in my squadron, VFA151, our aviators ordered twelve Glock 17s for Desert Storm in a package deal. Yes, the pistols were delivered and carried.

Simply because this pistol is a commercial Government Model does not mean that it was not carried by this lady's father during his career in the Navy. Hell, he probably had it nickel plated at Subic Bay, RP. He would not have been the only Sailor or Marine to do so.

As for what has been done to this lady's pistol, I have to agree with Chuck. Ditch the inappropriate grip safety, trigger and hammer. Keep it like Dad shot it, but improve the trigger and fit a better barrel.

I'd also remove your customer's name and serial number from your graph.

Why the lighter trigger or increased pull?

The combination of a heavyweight trigger and light trigger break can cause the trigger to bounce on recoil, disengaging the sear, and making for some rather interesting shooting. Ever see a 1911 imitate an Uzi?

And why the question if I had dropped the slide on an empty chamber?

To check for hammer follow. See above.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well s usual, X.B. got back to you sooner then I have.

As he explained the combination of a heavy trigger (the trigger itself, not the trigger pull) combined with a light pull, can cause the pistol to double-fire or even go into full auto until the pistol either jams, or the magazine runs dry. For similar reasons dropping the slide on an empty chamber can cause the hammer to follow down to the half-cock notch (which will damage the notch and sear) or go all of the way down, at which point the pistol will fire. For this reason, special lightened triggers are offered to prevent this. If you ever inspect an original Colt one-piece trigger used in the 1911 pistol you'll notice they made two mill-cuts in the fingerpiece to hog out a lot of metal. Some 1911A1 triggers are the same way. If you have a Brownells' catalog look up the lightened triggers and the pictures will show how they are made.

I think the Caspian trigger you have is intended to be a blank, with an oversized fingerpiece that the 'smith can configure to whatever shape they want. As it is it's way to heavy to be used in combination with an under 5-pound pull.

 

[jrhines]

Hammer follow...

OK, the question is "Did you check for hammer follow?" and the answer is yes, indeed! And it does not follow. I will take the suggestion to lighten the trigger to heart. I left the hammer engagement long just to help prevent follow, because the gun is old and a bit loose. The trigger has some creep (a bit less than the thickness of 2 business cards, .018" ). XB & OF, thanks for the info.