New Model 65 K-Frame

[Edcnh]

I just picked up a Smith & Wesson model 65-2 stainless 357 magnum revolver with a 4" heavy barrel. Took it to the range yesterday and was impressed with the accuracy considering the fixed rear notch sight. This will be my new woods gun! It is in great shape for it's age. Will try to post a picture later on when I figure out how.

 

[AZAndy]

I look forward to seeing it. Sounds like a keeper!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

was impressed with the accuracy considering the fixed rear notch sight.

Howdy

Although an adjustable rear sight allows the shooter to adjust the point of impact to the point of aim, it has nothing to do with the gun's inherent accuracy. Accuracy is defined as how small a group the gun will make, not where it puts the group.

I bought this Model 65-3 used about ten years ago. I think I paid just a shade under $200 for it. It was a local police service revolver. Despite the fact that there is a nasty gouge at one spot in the bore, it is quite accurate.

 

[MrBorland]

it has nothing to do with the gun's inherent accuracy.

Technically true, but IME, adjustable sights offer a better quality sight picture, so it's tougher to be as accurate with fixed sights, and a nice surprise when you are. Nonetheless, a M65 is a fine revolver, so congrats to the OP.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Nonetheless, a M65 is a fine revolver, so congrats to the OP.

Yes, a fine revolver.

 

[Edcnh]

This is my first revolver with a fixed rear sight. I almost didn't take the gun because of that. I am really glad I got it!

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

This is my first revolver with a fixed rear sight. I almost didn't take the gun because of that. I am really glad I got it!

Yeah, I was pretty sure from your comment that you were not real familiar with fixed sighted revolvers. I have dozens of them, I find they are just as accurate as any revolver with adjustable sights.

But I'll say again, nice revolver.

 

[dickydalton]

Nice revolver. I want one of them too.

 

[Edcnh]

 

[RealGun]

Howdy

Although an adjustable rear sight allows the shooter to adjust the point of impact to the point of aim, it has nothing to do with the gun's inherent accuracy. Accuracy is defined as how small a group the gun will make, not where it puts the group.

I bought this Model 65-3 used about ten years ago. I think I paid just a shade under $200 for it. It was a local police service revolver. Despite the fact that there is a nasty gouge at one spot in the bore, it is quite accurate.

You must be assuming the gun is properly sighted from the outset. I had a Taurus 431 that was factory certified as shooting high and left by over an inch, somewhere around 11 o'clock. They took it back for testing and returned it with a test target and the comment that the gun was "in spec". I would call that inaccurate, more than just an issue of chamber, throat, and bore. I had another fixed sight gun on which the rear sight needed to be filed toward one direction, although that didn't really fix it. That caused me to settle on adjustable sight guns, if it befit the style of the gun, certainly not something I want on a SAA type gun. Some of my smaller carry guns have fixed sights, and that's okay at those typical ranges.

 

[Edcnh]

As this will be a carry gun in the woods it will have more than enough accuracy for my needs. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with fixed sights which I have owned for about ten years and have never found the need to adjust the sights. As I shoot more than one load I typically leave the sights alone although adjustable sights are nice to have if you settle on one load.

 

[RealGun]

As this will be a carry gun in the woods it will have more than enough accuracy for my needs. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with fixed sights which I have owned for about ten years and have never found the need to adjust the sights. As I shoot more than one load I typically leave the sights alone although adjustable sights are nice to have if you settle on one load.

I read that and guessed you meant adjustable sights, me not knowing Blackhawks to have fixed sights.

 

[Edcnh]

My mistake. The Blackhawks are adjustable sights!

 

[Barry the Bear]

As this will be a carry gun in the woods it will have more than enough accuracy for my needs. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with fixed sights which I have owned for about ten years and have never found the need to adjust the sights. As I shoot more than one load I typically leave the sights alone although adjustable sights are nice to have if you settle on one load.

It will serve you well I have a -2 that rides along in a shoulder holster when hog hunting, it has put down 6 hogs itself

 

[ThomasT]

I have a model 65 that I am sure was a police turn in. I don't remember the dash number but I do know it shoots 158gr bullets right to the top of the front sight. And 140gr are bullets are so close to that I don't have to compensate for them. Mine also has a matte finish to the steel. IIRC I paid $280 off GB about 6-7 years ago. That was with shipping and transfer. Mine looks like it was just barely used. What a nice pistola.

 

[Edcnh]

Ratshooter I plan on working up a load using 158gr bullets and hope to try them out later this week. Will try shooting to the top of the front sight and see what happens. I want to find a good load at 25 yds but may have to wait depending on the weather. Snowing and cold here now.

 

[ThomasT]

Ed my go-to midrange 357 load has for years been a 158gr lead, either a Laser Cast or one of my Lee home cast bullets loaded in a 357 case with 6.6grs of Unique powder. This will give around 1100-1150fps and is a duplication of the old 33/44 load. I have killed a couple of small game and one medium sized goat with this load.

I have full power loads but don't shoot them that often. I like a plain ordinary target load up to the above mentioned load for general shooting. Full power stuff is saved for handgun deer hunting. But so far the deer have been safe.

 

[Edcnh]

Ratshooter thanks for the info. I will give it a try.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Nice revolver and a great woods carry gun. I suggest you don't shoot a lot of ammo with bullets lighter than 140gr. I'm a big fan of a 158gr LSWC for woods carry.

 

[RealGun]

Nice revolver and a great woods carry gun. I suggest you don't shoot a lot of ammo with bullets lighter than 140gr. I'm a big fan of a 158gr LSWC for woods carry.

Or he could use moderate loadings. Most lead loads aren't that wild anyway.

 

[Lone Star]

I was told by a CIA operative who had a considerable number of S&W revolvers and who had friends at the factory who got him special guns that the .38 and .357 revolvers are supposed to hit the bullseye at 15 yards with a six o'clock hold. I've found that to be generally true. I'm speaking of fixed sghts, of course. Ruger fixed sights seem to be similar,or maybe I was lucky with the three fixed sight Rugers I've owned

The M-65 was a basic service revolver that works well as an all-round sidearm. It can certainly be used for hunting, with the right loads.

Be aware of the caveats with any K-frame .357 about shooting hot 125 grain loads, which abrade the forcing cone and can crack the barrel throat where it 's been made flat to allow closing the cylinder. I think ball powders are more abrasive to the bore than are flake powders as more unburned powder, called ejecta by technicians, hits the forcing cone. This stuff also may abrade the topstrap.

I'd be interested to know which load the pig hunter above uses. Some regard the .357 as being pretty light on pigs, especially the larger ones.

I wouldn't hunt bear of any species with a .357, but an Alaskan guide said that used defensively, it can suffice. Both he and his daughter carry Ruger DA .357's. A Montana game warden killed an attacking grizzly with his M-66 and whatever 158 grain JHP load the state issued. This was witnessed by several people, including an outdoor magazine editor. They were trying to release a trapped bear that was being relocated.

I think the .357 is an excellent all-round handgun, but K-frame examples shouldn't be shot extensively with full loads. Bill Jordan, whose concept the K-framed .357 was, told me that he envisioned the gun being fired maybe 15% of the time with .357 ammo.

I suspect that the hot .38 Plus P rounds from Buffalo Bore that rival .38-44 velocities are a good compromise when you want some power, but don't need a full .357.
I presume that the OP knows that those chipped grips can easily be replaced. I favor Uncle Mike's or Pachmayr grips, and they fit most hands well and cushion the hand from recoil.

 

[RealGun]

I was told by a CIA operative who had a considerable number of S&W revolvers and who had friends at the factory who got him special guns that the .38 and .357 revolvers are supposed to hit the bullseye at 15 yards with a six o'clock hold.<snip>

What size bullseye would that be, i.e. how far from dead center is "six o'clock"?

 

[Lone Star]

lideally

What size bullseye would that be, i.e. how far from dead center is "six o'clock"?

I used the 25 yard sort. I'm sure the 50 foot size will suffice. A six o'clock hold is on the bottom of the bullseye. The bullets will then ideally hit center. This is with 158 grain loads. Lighter, faster bullets have less dwell time in the bore and will hit lower, as the barrel has less time to rise in recoil. You will want to get some life-size targets of snakes, deer, humans, etc. for practice on animals, once you know where the gun and load are shooting. Try squirrel and rabbit targets as far out as you think you can make clean kills in the field.

I have found Ruger and S&W fixed sights to be pretty close to "on" most of the time. Colts are notorious for needing to have the barrel turned slightly by a gunsmith who actually is worthy of the name. That said, I have fired a SAA .45 and a New Service .45 Colt at 25 yards with excellent results. The NS with a 5.5-inch barrel was dead center at that range and shot groups as tight as my S&W M-29, which was a real tack-driver. I suspect that a prior owner had had the Colt adjusted, but have no way to know. Ammo was Remington 250 grain factory stuff.

One time when I was a USAF cop, I drew a Colt Official Police on the range. The sights were so far off that I had to negotiate with the Rangemaster and get a S&W Victory Model to complete my qualification. I managed to salvage the day, but only shot a Marksman score. Had I not been using that Colt at first, I think I'd have made Expert.

Col. Chas. Askins told me that when he was chief marksmanship instructor for the USBP, he ordered a bunch of Colt NS .38 Specials. He had to turn the barrels on almost all to get the sights dead on before issuing the guns. I asked why he didn't just order S&W .38-44 Heavy Duty guns. He said candidly that he got on well with the Colt reps, but considered the S&W people to be elitist snobs. Prices should have been similar, especially on a large government order.

If you want more from me on fixed sights, please put a quarter in the slot.

 

[MrBorland]

I was told...that the .38 and .357 revolvers are supposed to hit the bullseye at 15 yards with a six o'clock hold.

What size bullseye would that be, i.e. how far from dead center is "six o'clock"?

I used the 25 yard sort. I'm sure the 50 foot size will suffice. A six o'clock hold is on the bottom of the bullseye.

The NRA 25 yard slow fire target is the B-16, and the 50' target is the B-2.

Since you're referring to a 6 o'clock hold, I assume "bottom of the bullseye" means bottom of the black, which, on the B-16 and B-2 targets is 5.32" and 3.07" across, respectively. If so, respective dead centers are 2.66" and 1.54" above the bottom of the black.

 

[ThomasT]

Mr Borland may be correct. Mine with 158gr bullets seems to shoot right to the top of the front sight. At around 20 yards if you want to shoot a coke can have the top of the front sight just below center of the can. The bullets will land right at center or just above center.

I had a Ruger 22 auto that was sighted in to be aimed at the bottom of the bullseye and it would hit center. I had a rabbit in my sights. I aimed with his head right on top of the front sight. At the shot he didn't move. But I could see a bullet hole through both ears. The next shot was held below his head and I killed him the second shot. I couldn't believe he held still after being shot through the ears but he did. That gun got a new taller front sight added to it.