"New" Mosin prep, going through bronze brushes?

[Sledgecrowbar]

I'm in the process of restoring my recently-purchased 91-30. Despite it's lack of monetary value, I'm doing the job accurately, with new shellac, stripping and bluing all metal parts, the whole nine yards. I'm happy with how it's coming out, despite the difficulties getting there.

I've been cleaning the bore off and on as I wait for something to arrive in the mail or for the stores to open up, as my free time is late at night. I had bought new 30-caliber bronze and nylon brushes for this, and was surprised that I lost resistance when using the bronze brush after one extensive session, getting a lot of graphite-colored residue out (I'm under the impression this is lead, correct me if I'm wrong and I'm reaming my bore with a bristle brush). There is also a bit of copper sparkle on the patches when I clean the solvent out after brushing. I believe this is bronze from the bristles, as I'm using Hoppes No. 9, that isn't known for breaking down copper fouling, and I've been on this bore for a while.

I ordered more bronze brushes, Dewey No-Harm is what I use, and they arrived today. I just went through *two* more brushes, to the point that running them through the barrel feels almost like there's nothing on the end of the cleaning rod.

The bore is unbelievably crudded up according to my patches, so I'm running the brushes in both directions to save from having to unscrew the brush and then screw it back in every time. Am I wrong to run them back up the barrel after pushing them out the muzzle? I'm using a store-bought breech guide that works very well for me, and I support the rod as the brush falls away from the crown. I've had no problems as far as going through the motions of normal cleaning. I'm wondering if running them back and forth is making the bristles become more soft. I tried the first brush again, with the same result, so I know the brushes aren't just temporarily wilting from friction heat.

I know that any brush will eventually wear down, but my pistol-length brush for my 9mm has the same lead fouling tint as these brushes and shows no signs of wear. It has far less to travel, but it's been used for a while now.

Maybe Dewey takes their No-Harm brand name a little too seriously. I bought them because I have Dewey rods, but I'd like to be able to clean one resto job without having to stock up on tools. If there's a better brush, I'll buy it, but I'm thinking there's not a whole lot of difference between one and another.

 

[rcmodel]

Go to any good hardware store and buy a pack of 0000 Super-Fine steel wool.

Wrap a tuft of it on a used bore brush until you got a tight fit again, then wrap another tuft on when that gets loose again.

Before you ask?
No, it will not harm the barrel any worse then it has already been harmed by leaving 100 years of corrosive primer residue in it!

You wasted your money on nylon brushes.
The only thing they are remotely good for is applying strong copper solvent that eats up bronze bore brushes.

rc

 

[Canuck-IL]

You might try the Otis electrolysis approach - or google "home made electrolysis for barrel cleaning." I ran a home made unit for several hours on a 91/30 that looked like a sewer pipe - it definitely helped when brushes were having basically no effect.

After that I went to WipeOut and can finally see (what's left of) the rifling. The corrosive primers it ate throughout its active life sure did a number! In future I'll be sticking w my Swedish Mausers and Swiss K-31s.

/Bryan

 

[dirtyjim]

brushes only last a few uses. i buy tipton brushes in 10 packs and probably go through 100+ brushes a year but i bring at least 5 guns with me every time i shoot

 

[Sledgecrowbar]

I thankfully only bought one nylon brush, as I bought one of each at first, thinking they'd last forever, as my new guns barely need scrubbing at all. As 30 caliber is common, I'm satisfied it'll all get used eventually. I'm losing some hope as I continue to clean this barrel, the lands seem to be completely rounded to the point where they look like speed bumps in an ocean of groove-diameter bore. I'm not hesitant to try steel wool, seeing the amount of lead coming out of the gun still. Thanks for that tip, hopefully it will save me some effort in getting it totally clean.

When I was brand new to gun ownership and maintenance, not too long ago, I was hesitant to use a bronze brush at all, but I was also foolish enough to think I needed to spend money on brand new everything, that at least didn't need a whole lot of maintenance before I could even shoot it. Now I treat my dirty (non-precision) guns like stubborn animals, scrubbing away until they stop refusing to let a patch go through without picking anything up.

This poor Mosin Nagant may end up as a wall hanger (though, I will definitely own a shooter, if not this one), but it will at least be impeccably presentable.

Electrolysis looks effective, but it's more equipment than I'd like to have to find a space for. I just did something smart and looked up lead fouling, gonna try some Chore Boy copper sponge, unraveled and wrapped around one of my used-up brushes.

Thanks for the advice, it has certainly taught me answers to questions I didn't know I needed to ask.

 

[Jim Watson]

Let time and chemistry work for you instead of elbow grease. Take a solvent that does not have warnings about leaving in the barrel too long, plug the chamber, fill the barrel up, and leave it for a while. I have a tall skinny bottle of Shooters Choice + Kroil that will loosen the stubborn fouling in a pistol barrel very well... in about three DAYS.

 

[Jim Watson]

Let time and chemistry work for you instead of elbow grease. Take a solvent that does not have warnings about leaving in the barrel too long, plug the chamber, fill the barrel up, and leave it for a while. I have a tall skinny bottle of Shooters Choice + Kroil that will loosen the stubborn fouling in a pistol barrel very well... in about three DAYS.

I have been leaving some rusty magazines in Evaporust for several days with fair to good results.

 

[FROGO207]

I am a fan of a product called PB Blaster. It is found at your local NAPA store. It will eat up the rust and get the carbon fouling out better than the other products I have tried so far. It does have to sit a while to work if you do not want to use lots of elbow grease though.

 

[LeonCarr]

JB Bore Cleaner

Turns dark milsurp bores into much brighter bores IME in about a day, which is not bad considering that 100 years of powder fouling, bullet fouling, and corrosive primer fouling, plus a thick layer of cosmoline could be in there.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Sledgecrowbar]

I was looking for a chemical that will dissolve the lead but do nothing to steel (or bluing, though that's going to be redone anyway). I'm reasonably sure it would have to be left at least overnight for this much fouling, if it were aggressive enough to do it in five or ten minutes, it would probably not be safe for the barrel steel. I'm still going to try to remove it mechanically with softer metal abrasive first, as I've been doing with the bronze brushes so far.

I'm looking at naval jelly for stripping the blue when I re-do it. I've been reading that it may eat things like solder (a good thing for me, the rear sight is soldered and needs to come off for the refinishing), but I'm wondering if leaving it in the bore overnight would dissolve the lead, and if it would be safe to leave on steel for that long. I believe it's not an acid, but a phosphate that attracts the corrosion from the metal without affecting the steel that hasn't oxidized.

 

[rcmodel]

Naval Jelly is for rusty battleships, not guns.

Leaving it on more then a few minutes will etch the steel and turn it a frosty white.

Do Not use it inside a barrel!!

rc

 

[Kp321]

+1 on RC's comment on Naval Jelly. It is phosphoric acid and will etch bare steel quickly. Evapo Rust is similar but much less aggressive. Still would not recommend using it in a rifle bore. PB Blaster or Kroil would be the best on rusty bores. Several years ago, I bought some stainless bristle bore brushes. They are very aggressive but I have not seen them for a while.

 

[Canuck-IL]

When the bore is bad enough that there's literally nothing to lose, you can always try the SS Hoppe's Tornado design brushes ... theoretically the "coiled" design of the brushing surfaces won't fray and flatten as normal bristles do - plus they're SS so significantly more durable than reg bore brushes.
/B

 

[Cosmoline]

I use 8mm nylon brushes for really worn out Mosin bores, to get deeper into the grooves and wear out fewer brushes. I save the bronze brushes for the final phase and copper removal. No need to waste them getting out the usual carbon and crudola.

 

[fishshocker]

Another vote for jb bore paste, cleaned my mosin up great. Love that stuff.

 

[One_Jackal]

I just used Remington 40x bore cleaner. And a great big 203gr bullet.....

 

[VinnAY]

Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner is what led me, finally, to get a clean patch from my milsurps. I tried it all before finding Glunslick. You might use it 3 times when it claims 1-2 treatment.
Insert tube in muzzle, fill bore, let it sit (horizontal) for 30 minutes, brush it, and patch it. Repeat. Evaluate.

 

[Clark]

When I was in my quest for a 1" group [that everyone on the internet can get], up until 2002, I only saw it done twice at a range:
1) A young guy with the same rifle every day at Issaquah range had a Winchester 70 Stainless Coyote .223 with rabbit ear bag in the rear, benchrest shooting rest in the front, and it would only do it with Federal Gold match ammo.
2) Dennis at Tacoma Sportsman Club in Puyallup had a 91/30 Mosin Nagant that had the bore lapped with valve grind compound on a cast Lead lapp and home made bore guide until the tight spot was gone. Then the bore was cleaned with Outers Foul out. Fajen Stock, glass bedded, 18X ancient Redfield scope, 180 gr Sierra flat base .311 pro hunter bullet jammed into the lands. The bore looked like a sewer pipe.

I felt tricked and cheated when I saw how well that sewer pipe could shoot. I felt like I was on a snipe hunt.

Now I know a few more of the secrets of accuracy, I have a couple times got a .5" group from the first group of a rifle when I am sighting it in.

I also know that Dennis weighs 270 pounds and wraps himself around that rifle.
I also know he can only get a couple groups before that rifle needs the Outers foul out again.

Since then I have given up on military ammo and military barrels for accuracy. I don't waste my time. I think I will rebarrel a Mosin Nagant in time for my two 2012 deer tags. It will be with a stainless select match barrel blank. It will have a 257 Roberts Ackley Improved rimmed chamber. It will be Nosler bullets and Hodgdon extreme powder. It will be Norma brass.

 

[One_Jackal]

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