New NFA regulations. What changes?

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dcrosle1

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I'm looking to get my trust made up as soon as possible, but I'm not sure which NFA item I want to buy yet. When the new regulations go into effect in July, do I have to have the NFA item purchased by then to avoid the new rules or can I purchase it later after the due date and still be covered since I'd have the trust in place ( covered meaning not having to get fingerprinted and get a CLEO to sign off for each NFA item)

Can somebody clear this up for me? I'd like to have a little more time to decide before I purchase my first NFA item, but plan on creating the trust right away.
 
Your application must have been submitted and be in pending status on the date the regulation takes effect. Having a trust before the effective date doesn't exempt you from the new requirements once they are in effect.

You need to find what you want and get it on a Form 4 fairly soon. I can only imagine the volume of forms being submitted now. If you don't get your form in the queue now it might not go pending by the effective date.
 
dcrosle1 said:
I'm looking to get my trust made up as soon as possible, but I'm not sure which NFA item I want to buy yet. When the new regulations go into effect in July, do I have to have the NFA item purchased by then to avoid the new rules or can I purchase it later after the due date and still be covered since I'd have the trust in place ( covered meaning not having to get fingerprinted and get a CLEO to sign off for each NFA item)

Can somebody clear this up for me? I'd like to have a little more time to decide before I purchase my first NFA item, but plan on creating the trust right away.
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General consensus is that your Form 1 / Form 4 has to be post-marked prior to June 13th, just like taxes.

SilencerShop has this to say: http://blog.silencershop.com/details-atf-41f/
There has been a lot of confusion around which applications will actually be grandfathered under the existing rules.

Basically, the ATF is treating this exactly like the IRS treats tax returns – and they’ll be relying on the US Postal Service postmark to determine whether a form will be handled under the existing rules vs the new ATF 41F rules.
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As for the CLEO sign-off, that is going away for ALL NFA items and is being replaced with a CLEO notification.
 
Like Yugorpk said, efile (which is only form 1's to build your own) is fastest but if you are buying something you need to paper file a form 4.

If you end up ordering something online and having it shipped to your local Class 3 dealer, I would find out which online companies will give you the serial number ahead of time so you don't have to lose 2 months for it to get into your local shop before starting your form 4. They have to get the transfer from them to your local shop approved by the ATF which is taking like 2 months right now.
 
Just curious where you got the Form 3 times from. I know of nfatracker for F1 and F4, but other than the occasional forum post, the wait time for F3 aren't easy to find.

I'm somewhat concerned about a can I've got on the way regarding this very thing. Would be terrible for it to get to the dealer after June 13th...
 
jerkface11 said:
Have they released details on what is required for notifying the CLEO?
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From what I've read, it has to be nothing more than a letter sent (preferably certified mail) that informs that you've bought xxx item, serial number xxx, ect. What I see an issue is, will they store said file?
 
But when Mr ATF comes knocking, you better have proof that you informed your CLEO. That's where certified mail comes in. Somebody has to sign for it.
 
Not questioning that...just the fact you mentioned ",will they store said file?". Makes no matter if they store it or not...burden will fall upon you to provide proof you.
 
trentcwwilson said:
From what I've read, it has to be nothing more than a letter sent (preferably certified mail) that informs that you've bought xxx item, serial number xxx, ect. What I see an issue is, will they store said file?
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The same place they store copies of the form 4's they have to sign now.
 
Not questioning that...just the fact you mentioned ",will they store said file?". Makes no matter if they store it or not...burden will fall upon you to provide proof you.
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Even if you send it certified with a signature required that only proves that you sent something not that it was notification you were buying an NFA item.
 
pdsmith505 said:
Just curious where you got the Form 3 times from. I know of nfatracker for F1 and F4, but other than the occasional forum post, the wait time for F3 aren't easy to find.

I'm somewhat concerned about a can I've got on the way regarding this very thing. Would be terrible for it to get to the dealer after June 13th...
Click to expand...

I ordered a suppressor 6 weeks ago online, they originally told me they were running about 6 weeks for transfers to other dealers. When I called recently they said it will probably be 2 months (from order date) or even a little over since not surprisingly, a lot of people just pulled the trigger on buying a suppressor or two.
 
jerkface11 said:
Even if you send it certified with a signature required that only proves that you sent something not that it was notification you were buying an NFA item.
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I'd just send him an email with receipt notification because thats as much as I would care to do.
 
Our trust has decided to have our lawyer hand deliver it. Seems I was outvoted. I think the email idea would be the best choice.
 
If I understand correctly, there will be no need for a trust any more. The only reason for a trust was because many CLEO's wouldn't sign off on the Form 4 and a trust bypassed that, allowing the transfer without a CLEO signature.

That was always wrong; the CLEO signature only says that there will be no local law violation if the transfer is completed. It was never intended to be a "permit" or "approval" by the CLEO, only a double check on local law (say a ban on SBR's had been enacted last night by the County Council and did not show up yet in BATFE's law data base).

But transfer to a corporation or a trust did not require a CLEO signature, so the trust route was used to get around a rule that was wrong in the first place.

By replacing the need for a CLEO signature with a CLEO notification, the need for a trust is obviated, and the individual can buy the item without a signature, so no more need for a trust.

If you still want to go the trust route, then the officers of the trust all have to undergo a background check. This is hailed as a forward step for gun control. It is no such thing. Since the number of transfers to trusts will drop to near zero, it makes no difference whatsoever to any one.

Jim
 
People do trusts for actual estate planning so I could see it a valid way in that respect. Some people also like to have more people than themselves having the ability to use the items. Some people also believe ( this is a belief system thing that has no basis in reality ) that if their spouse or kids are home with their NFA items and they arent locked away in a compound safe that the family is going to jail. The trust gives those people some peace of mind
 
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yugorpk said:
People do trusts for actual estate planning so I could see it a valid way in that respect. Some people also like to have more people than themselves having the ability to use the items. Some people also believe ( this is a belief system thing that has no basis in reality ) that if their spouse or kids are home with their NFA items and they arent locked away in a compound safe that the family is going to jail. The trust gives those people some peace of mind
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This. And when you have over 30 items in different states...
 
Jim - that may have been the reason for some but not most. For myself and just about everyone I know, not having to do fingerprints or photographs was the main selling point.

As Yugorpk said, after this passes, Trusts will still be good for people who want to add other people to be able to possess the NFA items, as well as it acting as a living Will in the event of your death. Lastly, for NFA items you make (form 1) you can engrave something cool for a name on it instead of your own personal name. But I agree, the number of new Trusts being created will likely go way down.
 
Ryanxia said:
I ordered a suppressor 6 weeks ago online, they originally told me they were running about 6 weeks for transfers to other dealers. When I called recently they said it will probably be 2 months (from order date) or even a little over since not surprisingly, a lot of people just pulled the trigger on buying a suppressor or two.
Click to expand...

I figured it was something like that... lets see...
Purchased 2 FEB
Form 3 sent early Feb
Possible Form 3 approval early Apr
possible Form 4 sent mid Apr

Recent Form 4 turn around times are 4-5 months now, figure 8-10 months with the mad rush by the time april rolls around...

possible F4 approval.... December - February?

Merry Christmas to me I suppose.
 
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