New NFA regulations. What changes?
- Thread starter dcrosle1
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medalguy
Member
There's definitely a need for trusts. As an example, my son lives in another state. When he comes to visit us he can take any of my toys in the trust out by himself, whether we are at home or not. With personal ownership that would not be possible.
medalguy
Member
OOPS.
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Theohazard
Member
Are they going to jail? No, probably not; I doubt anyone ever gets prosecuted for that unless it's an add-on charge for some other type of illegal activity. But that doesn't mean it's not technically illegal in certain circumstances.yugorpk said:
Here's a thread where Aaron Baker (a lawyer) specifically points out the legal reasons why leaving your NFA items at home with family members who aren't on your trust could be considered illegal:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=777377&page=2
dogtown tom
Member
Not likely.
A trust is preferable to an individual for several reasons (not just to avoid the CLEO signature)
First and foremost:
- If you have your spouse, son, daughter, brother, coworker or neighbor listed on your trust, each one of them can be in possession of that MG, SBS, SBR, silencer, etc by themselves. If an individual, you must be present anytime the firearm is used. (generally within eyesight)
pjeski
Member
Also, there is the anonymity of not engraving your own name on, say, a form 1 SBR. My trust name doesn't have my name or the word trust in it. Looks much better engraved than my name would.
Like I said, its a belief thing. No one EVER gets prosecuted for stuff like that yet you can always find an expert ( self appointed or not ) who can convince you or affirm to you that something is illegal and the ATF is going to stomp your kitty if thats what you want to believe. Some people like to remain 1000% in compliance with every law all the times but worrying about whats technically illegal under certain circumstances is not in my skill set.
Aaron Baker
Member
I think you and I have debated this point before, and I don't think that we ultimately disagree on what the law is, and whether it's enforced. But I do think a few things are important to be clear on:
1. It's definitely illegal allow someone to have access to your NFA firearm if it's either individually owned or they're not on your trust.
2. No one can point to a case where a family member has been prosecuted for an NFA item being left accessible in a house where they were home alone without the item's legal owner.
3. A fear of this happening, standing alone, should not be a sufficient reason to scare someone into buying a trust.
4. People should be given ALL of the information and allowed to make their own decision.
I agree with you, yugorpk, that sometimes TOO big of a deal is made of it when people are trying to sell a trust. But whenever it's mentioned as one possible benefit of a trust, I see posts saying "That's BS, it's not a risk because it never happens." I think that saying that runs the risk of making people believe it couldn't ever happen. And, unfortunately, because it's pretty clearly a technical violation of federal law, I think there is SOME amount of risk, even if it's small.
So it's okay to say, as you do, that it's not a risk that concerns you. But as a criminal defense attorney, I see people go to prison for a long time for what I perceive to be fairly small legal infractions, and I personally would never allow my wife to be home alone with an unsecured NFA item if she wasn't listed on my trust. It's not the main reason I have a trust, but it does give me peace of mind.
With that said, the ATF isn't going to be busting doors down and stomping kitties over it.
Aaron
Hi everyone.
I just read a little about the NFA rules changing and I want to get a Trust for a future silencer purchase. It's my understanding that I don't need the NFA item in my hands to get the Trust going? If I recall, a dollar bill can take its place for now? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Secondly, the only beneficiary that I want to use is my 20yr daughter, who won't be 21 until September. I understand I cannot put her on the Trust now but I'd still like to get it started. So...can I just name one of my friends who is over 21, and swap them out after September? It's my understanding that a Trust must have at least one beneficiary listed at the time of creation.
I was going to use here: https://www.guntrustguru.com/create-gun-trust. I'm in Ohio.
Please correct any incorrect assumptions. Thank you.
I just read a little about the NFA rules changing and I want to get a Trust for a future silencer purchase. It's my understanding that I don't need the NFA item in my hands to get the Trust going? If I recall, a dollar bill can take its place for now? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Secondly, the only beneficiary that I want to use is my 20yr daughter, who won't be 21 until September. I understand I cannot put her on the Trust now but I'd still like to get it started. So...can I just name one of my friends who is over 21, and swap them out after September? It's my understanding that a Trust must have at least one beneficiary listed at the time of creation.
I was going to use here: https://www.guntrustguru.com/create-gun-trust. I'm in Ohio.
Please correct any incorrect assumptions. Thank you.
Telekinesis
Member
Unless your lawyer has some specific rules, there shouldn't be a problem with using your 20 year old daughter as a beneficiary. Age of ownership/possession for NFA items is 18. You just have to be 21 to do a transfer through a dealer. There are a decent number of people who have made their own form 1 weapons when they were over 18 but under 21.
Regardless, if you're concerned about it, depending on the wording of your trust you should be able to change the beneficiary.
Aaron Baker
Member
You need a trust before you apply for a tax stamp. Trust, then stamp, is the proper order.
Beneficiaries of a trust may be any age. They don't inherit until you die. If they aren't adults when you die, the successor trustee's job is to hold onto the property until they're old enough to inherit. Also, age for possession of an NFA firearm is 18, so you're daughter is already old enough to inherit. You can list your daughter as beneficiary now.
You can also list your daughter as a current trustee, if you want her to be able to possess currently while you're not present.
Aaron
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