New Remington R51 - 3913 killer?

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The R51 appears to match my ideal feature set for a compact carry gun more closely than any other gun introduced in the last 50 years. Notwithstanding my normal conservatism regarding new gun designs, the R51's feature set overwhelms other considerations for me and I will be a willing beta tester of the product....

I can understand that, just like I can understand how a nostalgic chord can easily be struck with the retro design of the new R51. ;)

I miss the individuality, character and flowing lines of the cars of the 50's & 60's, myself. Sweeping, eye-catching flowing curves and lines. Not like a lot of the cookie-cutter "me too" blending and copying of body styles like we see today.
 
I want one,I had s/w 39 years a go,I wish I still had it,
This Remington looks like it will fit what I been looking for.
 
Sheesh, if people approached car sales the way they approach guns ("I won't buy the new model until the engine's been proven for ten years!") we'd still be driving stage coaches :rolleyes:

"While a larger version of the design seemingly acquitted itself well in some military testing before WWI, the design itself seems to have languished for some time. Just curious why."
Manufacturing costs, end of story. That and a market seemingly well satisfied by the 1911 for SA single stack carry guns. I rather imagine that 5-axis CNC has reduced the former quite a bit, the utterly relentless onslaught of pistols more identical than the last the latter (for me at least). Time for something new, guys. The 1911 is great and all, but it's just a mechanical design and it's been rehashed for over 100 years, now. Let's see where Remington and others can run with this hesitation concept. Your favorite gun is still safe; no need to try and smother this one in the crib :rolleyes:

"The fixed barrel design has been successfully used in some modern pistols, but it's also certainly taken a backseat to the Browning system. German and American engineers have certainly tried the fixed barrel concept enough times."
I don't understand the reference to a "fixed barrel system" or "concept" as though they are a class of guns. Tilting barrel refers to something very specific; moving the barrel vertically to engage locking surfaces on the slide. To my knowledge tilting barrels have never been done for any other reason.

A fixed barrel merely means the locking and/or delaying is done by some other means far more vague and varied. A C96 is nothing like a PPS is nothing like a Wildey is nothing like a Steyr GB is nothing like a Remington 51. What all those guns do seem to be is fairly accurate for their size and manufacturing quality (obvious exception being C96's abused by the Chinese :D). And that's a fairly reasonable claim to make, since no repeatable barrel lockup is needed for accuracy, just a decent quality barrel and trigger. If modern machining makes the Pedersen a profitable action, we may soon find it preferable to the many interlocking close-tolerance parts inherent to Browing designs. The man was a master of metallic choreography, but hardly a Kalashnikov in his design approach. Pederson was even worse, but this new execution based on his design looks very much simplified over the earlier effort.

Remington has presented us; an entirely plausible concept, a fantastic feature set, a truly innovative approach, and an attractive execution. There is absolutely no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one. It's not a model they've been continually cutting costs on (700 series), nor a product aimed at the lowest end of the market (870 express series), nor a product uprooted during its production cycle (Marlin/Remington lever actions). Just as Dodge came out with the new Grand Cherokee and redeemed its name, so can Remington still produce a great firearm occasionally.

TCB
 
Am I the first to notice that the heading is 3913 killer? Unfortunately, S&W killed that little bugger off long before this came out.

left me scratching my head too...
 
Sadly, S&W killed the 3913 and the other 3rd Gen guns because they didn't want to be bothered producing and marketing premium quality metal firearms that aren't 1911s. Too expensive, they said, and everyone wants polymer guns now...judging by the interest in the R51, both of these positions appear to be miscalculated.
 
I know that being "a beta tester" MAY find me having issues and having to deal with Remington CS, . . . but I'm good with that possibility. I plan on testing it to some degree, . . . a couple hundred rounds, . . . and then will use it for my CCW. I don't plan on putting thousands of rounds through it, though. I don't have the money to do that. . . . and will let another do it. But if I run a couple hundred rounds through it and find it to be trouble free, I'll be fine putting it into service.

Having said that, . . . if it is a VERY nice shooting pistol, I may spend the money on more range trips. ;)
 
Am I the first to notice that the heading is 3913 killer? Unfortunately, S&W killed that little bugger off long before this came out.

mooner, . . . . no, I thought the same thing.

left me scratching my head too...

Why - when S&W quit making the 3913 they all evaporated from existence? ;)

I meant "3913 killer" in the sense that the R51 is likely to appeal to the same people as does the 3913, and may even affect the brisk market in used 3913s.

I've had a 3913 since they were first released, I'm a big fan - but the R51 is tempting in the same way.
 
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"There is absolutely no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one."

After what they did to Marlin they will have to show me. I can't imagine why anybody would give big green a free pass.
 
"There is absolutely no reason not to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one."





After what they did to Marlin they will have to show me. I can't imagine why anybody would give big green a free pass.






love my R1 1911. It seems most owners love them and they have a good track record. Not saying ANYONE deserves a free pass, but the did well by the R1
 
HeavyDuty, . . . I actually did understand what you were saying.

I pondered getting a 3913 at one time, but it didn't really have the characteristics I would have ultimately wanted. I'm more of a SAO guy, and the 3913 looks to be DAO. Also, I'm sure it shoots nice, but it looks like the bore axis is WAY high on it. I'm sure many would rather keep their 3913 over this new R-51.
 
If reviews aren't horrid I plan to buy one. I like the look of it and the specs make me think it'll be a good CCW.
 
Well, I'm number 3 on the list at my LGS. They're probably going to want full MSRP...
 
My wife is gaga over this. She says it's "James Bond meets Isaac Asimov."
The more I think about it the more I like it. IF it turns out to be reliable? I'll get her one. If I like hers? I'll get me one. I'll be waiting till the "dust settles" though.
 
Guns.com just did a spec comparison of between the R51 and Glock 42. Higher capacity, higher-power-and-cheaper round, two-thirds the price for he gun itself, and exact same physical footprint. The Glock is admittedly lighter, but the Remington R51 otherwise runs circles around it. Nicely done for a gun nobody saw coming.

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/08/remington-r-51-v-glock-42/
 
As mentioned before, Remington butchered Marlin, at least from the lever gun standpoint. But my R1 Enhanced is a very nice piece. Even though we can't carry in NJ I may need to get one of these R51s as I think it is very cool and it is made of metal! And the price is amazing.
9 fingers
 
Already contacted my local gun store and put a order in for one. The owners are currently at the Shot Shows in North Carolina and Vegas, and I ask them to look into whether or not Remington is planning on offering the R51 in 45acp sometime in the future as they're plans to produce it in the 40 S&W. A R51 in 45acp would be just prefect!
 
"As mentioned before, Remington butchered Marlin, at least from the lever gun standpoint"
To be technical, they butchered the incorporation/integration of an entirely separate company at the same time they were moving its manufacturing operations around. I personally think the issue was poor corporate strategy rather than Remington ground-floor incompetence (that is to say, I'm sure anyone could have sliced/diced Marlin like they did and had it work out.)

So long as the rollout R51's don't have the slides made in Malaysia, the frames made in Belgium, and assembled by blind/mute workers in SC, I don't have many worries. If they come out with a model that has the "express" matte finish --that would have me worried about both looks and function :barf:

Cerberus must be really incompetent if they are dead set on dumping Freedom Group in the middle of their highest high sales and everything. Then again, these are the idiots who nearly ran Chrysler into the ground, before a competent managerial group "magically" made things better within a few years and are now delivering their best vehicles in generations.

TCB
 
Billy Shears said:
One of the main reasons for that was the need to avoid infringing patents that were still in force then, but have long since expired.
Grip screws
Monolithic slide
Telescoping bolt

... just a sampling of JMB's patents.
The man was an innovator and wasn't dumb about identifying revolutionary leaps in design.

I still like the oddball pederson designs, as well as Savage stuff. It made for some interesting engineering when everyone had to work around JMB patents.
But JMB obviously won the design race.
 
So long as the rollout R51's don't have the slides made in Malaysia, the frames made in Belgium, and assembled by blind/mute workers in SC, I don't have many worries.

Those same "blind/mute workers in SC" produce M16s, M249s, M240s, FN pistols, Winchester 70s, and other high-quality firearms (at FN Manufacturing in Columbia, SC). We would be fortunate indeed if Remington would use SC workers to produce the R51.

Instead, we have to settle for Charlotte, NC workers at Remington's new facility there. Which isn't so bad- at least it's not in a freedom-hating state like New York, Conn., or Mass.
 
It made for some interesting engineering when everyone had to work around JMB patents.

Even JMB had to work around his own patents for the 1911 (which he had sold to Colt) when he started designing the BHP.
 
Guns.com just did a spec comparison of between the R51 and Glock 42. Higher capacity, higher-power-and-cheaper round, two-thirds the price for he gun itself, and exact same physical footprint. The Glock is admittedly lighter, but the Remington R51 otherwise runs circles around it. Nicely done for a gun nobody saw coming.

http://www.guns.com/2014/01/08/remington-r-51-v-glock-42/
I'm still of the mindset that when it comes to constant controlled explosions, on the magnitude of tens of thousands of PSI per square inch, in the palm of my hand....that "lighter" isn't "better".

I like a proper steel gun. Heft can be a good thing too.

:)
 
"Those same "blind/mute workers in SC" produce M16s, M249s, M240s, FN pistols, Winchester 70s, and other high-quality firearms (at FN Manufacturing in Columbia, SC). We would be fortunate indeed if Remington would use SC workers to produce the R51."

My point was that unless Remington unnecessarily complicates the production process (procurement, management, ect.) they will be fine. At least for the first production run, before the bean counters start trying to play with cost cutting (see my comment about the Express 'finish'). If Remington can really and truly produce these at a healthy profit for <400$* they've got it made.

*I think they deserve a healthy rather than marginal profit on these, since they've obviously done a good bit of internal R&D to make it (instead of cribbing off other identical designs like 1911's), and the feature set is sure to make it very highly demanded. Hopefully Remington won't leave money on the table in a misguided effort to corner the CCW market by undercutting the competitors (hint; it won't work, and will only lose money, forcing them to cheapen the gun further)

TCB
 
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