New rifle 30-06 misfires and shoulders blown forward - a lot!

[IMtheNRA]

Yesterday, I helped a friend sight in his new Winchester 70 (Lightweight) rifle in 30-06 and we had two issues that lead me to suspect an oversized chamber and excessive headspace. Only factory-new ammo was used.

1. When using Rem UMC ammo, about 2/3 of the cartridges did not fire. There was a light pin strike, but the cartridges did not activate. When he switched to Winchester ammo, they all fired. But...

2. The fired cases appear to have their shoulders blown forward so much that they now look like the Ackley Improved version of 30-06. Bolt operation felt normal and there was no hint of sticky bold lift. Accuracy was acceptable. Here are the cases next to factory new Winchester ammo:

I would like to get some opinions on whether or not there is a problem with headspace. I also assume this brass should not be reloaded because the shoulder moved so much that the case is excessively stretched and weakened, am I right in thinking this?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Sounds like a head apace problem.

 

[wally]

If its a new gun I'd contact the manufacturer immediately. That ain't right!


If its a used gun, are you sure it's not been "Ackley Improved" by the previous owner?

 

[farmerboy78]

Looks to be an ackley, if it were heads paced it would have the same shoulder angle I would think

 

[Sunray]

Measure 'em. And/or make a chamber cast.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3006improvedackley.jpg

 

[IMtheNRA]

It is a brand-new rifle. Winchester wants it back and they're sending a shipping label.

 

[desidog]

Its a factory new rifle? Was it sold, bubba'd, and returned? Then resold to your friend?

Looking at that shoulder, I'd say it's 30-06 AI... that is definitely not a regular 30-06 shoulder, regardless of the headspace.

The headspace being off might account for the failed ignitions though; were the primers dimpled?

 

[Fremmer]

Unless there's something I'm missing, I think you and your friend are really lucky that rifle didn't blow up right into your face/neck when you fired it.

 

[Sam1911]

Unless there's something I'm missing, I think you and your friend are really lucky that rifle didn't blow up right into your face/neck when you fired it.

I'm not sure why you'd say that. All "Improved" type wildcat cartridges are fire-formed by firing the under-sized parent cartridge in the larger "improved" chamber.

While if this is an unintentional situation there are risks because who knows what else might not be to the intended factory spec? But if "all" the problem is is an "improved' version chambering there is no danger in them shooting it.

 

[scythefwd]

I'm not sure it'd be an issue with a blown up gun if it was an accidental headspace issue. Case rupture, sure.. but that barrel and bolt are designed to hold that pressure.. You'd have a stuck case to remove.. but I'd expect that to be the biggest issue on a MODERN rifle.

 

[Fremmer]

I guess my statement was based on the appearance of the cases.

If that barrel is marked .30-06 Springfield, and the rifle is chambered for another round, then whoever chambered it screwed up by not properly marking the barrel with the correct chambering.

Of course I could be totally misunderstanding your point, but light strikes combined with those cases sure doesn't seem right to me....

 

[Reloadron]

It is a brand-new rifle. Winchester wants it back and they're sending a shipping label.

As Winchester well should. A brand new 30-06 rifle should shoot brand new 30-06 ammunition just fine. While I can't figure out how this rifle ever could have shipped it is a Winchester problem.

Ron

 

[jmr40]

I helped a friend sight in his new Winchester 70 (Lightweight) rifle in 30-06

The "Lightweights" were a limited run that haven't been made since the 1980's. Are sure this is a new rifle? Or did you mean to say "Featherweight".

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Reminds me of my buddy that bought a Remington 40x in .308 and couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. He discovered it had been re chambered to .30-06.....Trouble with it is it's a short action. He had to take the bolt out to get an unfired round out of the action.

 

[armoredman]

'm not sure why you'd say that. All "Improved" type wildcat cartridges are fire-formed by firing the under-sized parent cartridge in the larger "improved" chamber.

While if this is an unintentional situation there are risks because who knows what else might not be to the intended factory spec? But if "all" the problem is is an "improved' version chambering there is no danger in them shooting it.

Unfortunately there is absolutely no way to know IF that actually is the chambering for this rifle, being marked 30-06. All that is known is the rifle is not correctly chambered, and regardless of how an "improved" cartridge brass is created, it is never recommended to fire a round in a rifle not expressly designed for it, which this one manifestly is not designed for the chambering marked on it. Good on Winchester to make good right away - that rifle is a huge lawsuit waiting to happen

 

[Sam1911]

Of course!

 

[mudstud]

I don't believe for a second that the rifle in question is brand new. It has obviously been rechambered, and it sure looks like an Ackely Improved to me. Just look at the fired brass. Whoever did the rechamber, didn't mark the barrel appropriately. Darn near certain Winchester didn't do that. 'Course, I could be wrong, maybe Winchester just happened to chamber a 30-06 AI, and forgot to mark it appropriately. But I doubt it. JMHO.

 

[Robert]

Post 6 would seem to state otherwise.

 

[silicosys4]

I'm interested in seeing winchesters response, if they explain the situation.
If it's a brand new rifle, unmodified from the factory,
Odds are this was a mismarked barrel/incorrect reamer
So it has to be a factory reamer in a caliber Winchester has offered in the past.
Has Winchester ever offered any ackley improved caliber as a factory clambering?
If not, what other clambering would match?
Measurements of the brass would certainly help.

I'd also want to know more about the rifles history....was it purchased from the factory/dealer new and in person? Or is he passing along second hand info, maybe the last owner called it "new" when it might have been rebarreled without being shot before or after....straight from the factory to the gunsmith, who didn't stamp the AI, then to the closet, then to a new owner....

 

[Fremmer]

But I now understand fire forming, and I appreciate the info. Learn something new every day on here!

 

[IMtheNRA]

To answer something that was brought up a few times in this thread - the rifle is a brand new Winchester model 70, purchased at Walmart. Brand new.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I too wonder if Winchester ever offered a .30-06 AI and that rifle somehow got chambered for it and marked Springfield.

Please let us know what Winchester says.

 

[sage5907]

I don't think it's a 30-06 Ackley improved version. On the Ackley version the 40 degree shoulder begins at a length of 2.017, check your fired case with a micrometer.

 

[Scooter22]

Wow and WOW. Get that rifle returned for what ever reason. If thats factory I would press for a explanation and full compensation. If a factory defect how many more may be out there that others will shoot with no idea?? That looks like a recall.

 

[Clint M]

Winchester would not chamber it in ackley as they reccomend only commercial ammo in their guns (no reloads) as do most manufactures. I'm sure a reamer problem or reamer of another cartridge was used if it's a new gun (which seems to be as OP said brand spanking new from walmart).

No harm no foul here, the case never ruptured, the gun is built to take one heck of a lot more than this and dispose of any left over gas away from the shooter in case of a ruptured case. Sure enough odd tho, never seen a factory job do anything like that.