New rifle load .223

[Palladan44]

Recently acquired a new Ruger American Predator .223. This will mark the first bolt action rifle I've loaded for. Up to now for the last 16 years, I've loaded for pistol calibers. Within the last year, I've been loading .223 for MSR platforms. (Using the small base die from RCBS) I also have a neck sizing die (rcbs) which I'm thinking will come into play here.

I'd like to make the handloads as absolute best as I can. Most accurate.
I realize this will take a lot of trial and error, and ladders, but that's the part I'm looking forward to the most.

I'm thinking to get this started, to bore sight it, and then take a batch of factory LC .223 (20 or 40 rounds sound good?)and break it in a little and get it sighted in. Then I'll have a batch of fire formed brass to clean and get prepped.
(Am I on the right track, or am I getting ahead of myself with the fire formed brass this soon?)

How do you figure out what length brass the rifle likes? I'm limited to MSR OALs due to the AR box mags this thing uses.

I have:
Benchmark, H-335 and CFE 223.
I have:
RMR 69gr BTHP
Hornady 55gr FMJ-HPBT
Hornady 53gr FMJ-HP (flat base match)
And M193s

Thanks!

 

[Charlie98]

Were I you... I would keep it simple for the moment.

Shoot that LC to see how it does, keep the brass.

I would full-length size that brass... at first... to eliminate any issues with chambering, etc. You want your first handloads to be successful. Be aware, if it's LC brass, you will very likely have to ream or swage out those primer pockets.

The Easy Button for your first handloads would be the 55grn FMJ-BT bullets and H335.

Question: What twist is your barrel?

 

[Palladan44]

Were I you... I would keep it simple for the moment.

Shoot that LC to see how it does, keep the brass.

I would full-length size that brass... at first... to eliminate any issues with chambering, etc. You want your first handloads to be successful. Be aware, if it's LC brass, you will very likely have to ream or swage out those primer pockets.

The Easy Button for your first handloads would be the 55grn FMJ-BT bullets and H335.

Question: What twist is your barrel?

1:8 RH
22"
Initial research from other searches showing that regular 55s the best at doing sub MOA out of this gun.
No real advantage to the 69 bthps. But weel see.

 

[2ndtimer]

Is that rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO rounds? Some people claim that 5.56 should not be fired in .223 Rem chambered rifles, and I am guessing that your LC factory 55 gr FMJBT ammo is 5.56 NATO. FWIW, back in the day, I shot a bunch of Winchester white box USA 55gr FMJBT through a Savage 110 .223 light varmint rifle with no ill effects, YMMV. (How long ago? Not sure but the ammo cost $2.99 for a box of 20 at White Elephant in Spokane, WA)

 

[Charlie98]

a batch of factory LC .223

and I am guessing that your LC factory 55 gr FMJBT ammo is 5.56 NATO.

Important point. LC is usually 5.56mm, but I have seen it either way... but it is important to note. If the headstamp has the NATO compass... it's 5.56mm, and I wouldn't shoot it in your rifle.

Initial research from other searches showing that regular 55s the best at doing sub MOA out of this gun.
No real advantage to the 69 bthps.

Might want to rethink that. 55grn FMJ bullets are typically not very high quality, at least when compared to something like a 69grn BTHP, the 69grn is a superior bullet, in a number of ways. That isn't saying the Hornady 55grn FMJ-BT isn't a good bullet, and you have the flat base Match bullets, too, so you never know... but I would be surprised if the 55's outshot the 69's. With your 1:8" barrel, it should shoot both well, and your rifle may take a liking to the 55's... you'll have to see.

 

[Palladan44]

Should have clarified, all my LC stamped factory .223 stuff is actually the Black Box American Eagle stuff from few years (maybe 15 years now) back. It just happens to have an LC headstamp. I appreciate you all looking out on those details. Details matter. Agree that most LC factory means 5.56, that is true.
I did a search online and got some pretty compelling results from some guy who did a boatload of testing on this rifle, and It seemed that his methodology was pretty solid. Here is a peek at it..

223 Remington Load Development: 52, 55, 69 HPBT, Varget and the Ruger American Rifle

I believe 223 Remington is one of the more underappreciated cartridges on the market. Sure, the industry sells a boat load of it. Unfortunately, most of this success is due to its widespread use in…

rifleshooter.com

But, have to try it all out for myself otherwise what fun would it be; and other people's results....be taken with a grain of salt.


I've got a few hundred of these. ^^^

And these^^^ are Hornady 55gr HPBT which shoot really well out of my HBAR with 1:9 barrel

And the RMR 69gr hpbt. These also shoot very well out of my other firearms.
Kind of a crapshoot on where to start.

 

[horsey300]

Should have clarified, all my LC stamped factory .223 stuff is actually the Black Box American Eagle stuff from few years (maybe 15 years now) back. It just happens to have an LC headstamp. I appreciate you all looking out on those details. Details matter. Agree that most LC factory means 5.56, that is true. View attachment 1184887
I did a search online and got some pretty compelling results from some guy who did a boatload of testing on this rifle, and It seemed that his methodology was pretty solid. Here is a peek at it..

223 Remington Load Development: 52, 55, 69 HPBT, Varget and the Ruger American Rifle

I believe 223 Remington is one of the more underappreciated cartridges on the market. Sure, the industry sells a boat load of it. Unfortunately, most of this success is due to its widespread use in…

rifleshooter.com

But, have to try it all out for myself otherwise what fun would it be; and other people's results....be taken with a grain of salt.

View attachment 1184890
I've got a few hundred of these. ^^^
View attachment 1184891
And these^^^ are Hornady 55gr HPBT which shoot really well out of my HBAR with 1:9 barrel
View attachment 1184892
And the RMR 69gr hpbt. These also shoot very well out of my other firearms.
Kind of a crapshoot on where to start.

Benchmark and a 55gr hpbt to start, run that ladder, then run another ladder with Benchmark and the 53 gr to confirm whether there's enough performance difference to matter between the two, make notes of it, then ladder the 69 with benchmark. Then compare your best groups of all 3 and decide if you like what you're finding enough to leave as is or tweak seating depth a titch. Then you'll know if you want different bullets/powders, or just more.

 

[Charlie98]

It just happens to have an LC headstamp.

That's the stuff I'm talking about... LC stamp, but marked .223. I may still have some of that brass upstairs, too. That was made when Federal (ATK) ran the Lake City Ammo plant back in the day. You will note the crimped primer pocket...

I actually struggled a little bit when I first started loading 5.56mm, mostly with sizing issues, and trying to feed an AR-15 with a tight match chamber... that's why I suggest hitting the Easy Button, and use those 55grn Hornadys with H335... but it sounds like you've already loaded for your AR before.

 

[Palladan44]

That's the stuff I'm talking about... LC stamp, but marked .223. I may still have some of that brass upstairs, too. That was made when Federal (ATK) ran the Lake City Ammo plant back in the day. You will note the crimped primer pocket...

I actually struggled a little bit when I first started loading 5.56mm, mostly with sizing issues, and trying to feed an AR-15 with a tight match chamber... that's why I suggest hitting the Easy Button, and use those 55grn Hornadys with H335... but it sounds like you've already loaded for your AR before.

Yes. And I just ream the primer pockets on the crimped ones, no problemo.

And my Colt Hbar has been fussy with handloads as far as rounds hanging up in the chamber as well. I almost wish I could take a few thousandths off the bottom of my resizing die or get a die that pushes the shoulder back one more degree....lol.

 

[JSneezy]

Yes. And I just ream the primer pockets on the crimped ones, no problemo.

And my Colt Hbar has been fussy with handloads as far as rounds hanging up in the chamber as well. I almost wish I could take a few thousandths off the bottom of my resizing die or get a die that pushes the shoulder back one more degree....lol.

You could give the Redding Competition shellholder set a try. One of them should allow that extra little bit of sizing you're looking for.

 

[AJC1]

You could give the Redding Competition shellholder set a try. One of them should allow that extra little bit of sizing you're looking for.

None of the redding holders allow for more sizing. They only get thicker. The idea is to set your die somewhere in the middle, and swap holders to go more or less in a predictable way.

 

[AJC1]

Yes. And I just ream the primer pockets on the crimped ones, no problemo.

And my Colt Hbar has been fussy with handloads as far as rounds hanging up in the chamber as well. I almost wish I could take a few thousandths off the bottom of my resizing die or get a die that pushes the shoulder back one more degree....lol.

Any way you know a guy with a surface grinder... keep the die square and take off exactly what you want...

 

[JSneezy]

None of the redding holders allow for more sizing. They only get thicker. The idea is to set your die somewhere in the middle, and swap holders to go more or less in a predictable way.

I was sure I had seen them advertised as a +/- set somewhere. I must have been mistaken.

One of my customers has a ton of metalworking tools and also shoots competitively. He was telling me he took .003 off one of his shell holders to get the headspace he was looking for, but would not do the same for anyone else, because he was concerned with the risk of liability.

He also loads on a 140mm Prazipress, uses a Sartorius scale that probably cost about what half the stuff on my bench cost combined, anneals after every range trip, and I'm sure there's a lot more I don't know about.

 

[Soonerpesek]

Any way you know a guy with a surface grinder... keep the die square and take off exactly what you want...

Surprised you said surface grinder, with your "new" lathe and all.
Ironically, I just chucked a Redding PCD in the lathe and faced .0625" off of her.....was kissing the shell plate at the bottom of the ram stroke when I had it adjusted to my chosen crimp depth........
I will say..................tools are kool.................


Edited the amount-------1/16" NOT 5/8"...............decimal point dyslexia....!!

 

[Yankee1986]

I was sure I had seen them advertised as a +/- set somewhere. I must have been mistaken.

One of my customers has a ton of metalworking tools and also shoots competitively. He was telling me he took .003 off one of his shell holders to get the headspace he was looking for, but would not do the same for anyone else, because he was concerned with the risk of liability.

He also loads on a 140mm Prazipress, uses a Sartorius scale that probably cost about what half the stuff on my bench cost combined, anneals after every range trip, and I'm sure there's a lot more I don't know about.

Had to google that.
Wow, fine piece of machinery right there.

 

[AJC1]

I was sure I had seen them advertised as a +/- set somewhere. I must have been mistaken.

One of my customers has a ton of metalworking tools and also shoots competitively. He was telling me he took .003 off one of his shell holders to get the headspace he was looking for, but would not do the same for anyone else, because he was concerned with the risk of liability.

He also loads on a 140mm Prazipress, uses a Sartorius scale that probably cost about what half the stuff on my bench cost combined, anneals after every range trip, and I'm sure there's a lot more I don't know about.

Liability gets into everything, but shortening a die is a big leap to any type of catastrophic failure. The shell holder can be ground exactly the same way if that is the preferred method. Annealing may be a way to bypass the extraordinary efforts.

 

[Show Me]

You could give the Redding Competition shellholder set a try. One of them should allow that extra little bit of sizing you're looking for.

Reread what redding comp shellholders do

 

[Palladan44]

Update. Well heres a picture of the rifle, cause its mandatory
I decided to start off with some handloads (so I can say this rifle has never seen a factory load in its life, with besides the test round they fired at the factory)
I started things off with this batch of Speer Nickel Plated brass that I have about 1000pcs of. I resized using my RCBS Small base die. (I'm used to using this die for loading for my semi-autos)
I figured I'd used the fire-formed brass going forward anyways.

Started out with 69gr RMR BTHP and Benchmark 3 rounds at 21.5gr, 3 at 21.8
3 at 22.1gr. OAL 2.235"

Bore sighted and fired the first 3 to get it on paper and sighted in at 50 yds. I was able to do that just about instantly, as you'd expect from this setup. Noticed the primers backing out on the fired brass.
Thought initially it could have been low pressure due to being at the starting charge. So I fired the next 3 at the 21.8gr and same thing.....and so we're the next 3 at 22.1. Extractions were extremely easy, no resistance at all.

Now I'm thinking it's not caused by low pressure, but rather the headspacing. Perhaps my brass is undersized. I went through a whole bunch of difficulties getting brass sized right for my Colt HBAR, that my setup could now be pushing the shoulder back too far.....

 

[Palladan44]

You can barely see them protrude beyond the head.... but they measured about .0025" sticking out, which when put that way is pretty significant IMO.

The good news is, first 9 shots out of the gate the rifle is dialed in and already shooting about 1" group at 100 yds.
The final 3 shots achieved that (22.1gr Benchmark load)

From here, I'm thinking of just cleaning/ measuring/trimming (if needed) the 9 fire formed pieces of brass and picking up where I left off at 22.1gr and see what happens, then loading 3 at 22.4 and 3 more at 22.7gr.
I'll be looking to get as good of accuracy as I can and then hope that the primers backing out problem goes away with the fire formed brass. Thoughts?
(I'll bring the chronograph this next time)

 

[AJC1]

View attachment 1185091
You can barely see them protrude beyond the head.... but they measured about .0025" sticking out, which when put that way is pretty significant IMO.
View attachment 1185094
The good news is, first 9 shots out of the gate the rifle is dialed in and already shooting about 1" group at 100 yds.
The final 3 shots achieved that (22.1gr Benchmark load)

From here, I'm thinking of just cleaning/ measuring/trimming (if needed) the 9 fire formed pieces of brass and picking up where I left off at 22.1gr and see what happens, then loading 3 at 22.4 and 3 more at 22.7gr.
I'll be looking to get as good of accuracy as I can and then hope that the primers backing out problem goes away with the fire formed brass. Thoughts?
(I'll bring the chronograph this next time)

I like to partial size until I start to feel the brass need to cam in. Those 9 will work perfectly. Lower the fls die down until you get about 75% of the neck sized. Keep shooting them until they don't chamber. Then used the stripped bolt method to set your sizing die and use a Hornaday cross lock ring to lock it down for good. With the same shell holder and die set you can shoot them until you feel them starting to cam in. Anneal and be good for another 3-5 reloadings. Rinse recycle and repeat.

 

[Palladan44]

I like to partial size until I start to feel the brass need to cam in. Those 9 will work perfectly. Lower the fls die down until you get about 75% of the neck sized. Keep shooting them until they don't chamber. Then used the stripped bolt method to set your sizing die and use a Hornaday cross lock ring to lock it down for good. With the same shell holder and die set you can shoot them until you feel them starting to cam in. Anneal and be good for another 3-5 reloadings. Rinse recycle and repeat.

I appreciate the info, but a lot of that went right over my head. I'm newer to loading rifle rounds. This is an entire new ballgame when compared to the straight walled pistol cases I've loaded for about 20 years.

I have an RCBS die that even when I've had it cranked down all the way to the toolhead (+1/8 crank) (Dillon 550B toolhead) I still had issues getting rounds to cycle. I attributed this mostly to the expander ball unthreading a bit, and I had the decapper about .6 or .7" down rather than the recommended .400" past the end of the die. Additionally, not enough lube inside the necks and having shoulders pull back out.

I get what you're saying, so still full length resizing die, but only until the neck is about 3/4 sized.....got it.
How about lubricating, same deal whole case plus inside necks of course?

 

[kmw1954]

I would highly recommend picking up a Hornady Comparator. It has been a great asset to my reloading. I rely on it for setting up my sizing die to set the shoulder head space. Then I use it to set the depth of seating my bullets. Can purchase them individually for each caliber or as a set to cover the most popular cases.

Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Body

Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Body By HORNADY RELOADING TOOLS ITEM DECRIPTION For use with the Hornady Lock n Load Bullet Comparator Body Inserts and the Lock n Load Overall Length Gauges (not included).. Specifications & Features: This is the comparator body only. Bullet inserts sold...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Lock-N-Load Cartridge Headspace Bushings

Lock-N-Load Cartridge Headspace Bushings by Hornady Reloading The Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge is ideal for measuring from the case-head to the datum line on the case shoulder to allow for proper brass resizing for a exact fit with the rifle chamber. Bushing fit the comparator body...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Inserts

Lock-N-Load Comparator Insert by HORNADY RELOADING TOOLS Bullet Comparator Inserts are designed for use with the Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator; it elminates variables when measuring the over-all length of a bullet. Bullet length can vary a few thousandths due to material variation and tip...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

I had been using one of these to begin with. Not nearly as consistent or as versatile.

Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauges

Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauge by LYMAN Protect yourself and your firearms. To achieve the highest degree of safety and accuracy, Lyman recommends that all bottleneck rifle cases be inspected after resizing to ensure that the proper headspace dimension is maintained. The best way to check...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

 

[Palladan44]

I would highly recommend picking up a Hornady Comparator. It has been a great asset to my reloading. I rely on it for setting up my sizing die to set the shoulder head space. Then I use it to set the depth of seating my bullets. Can purchase them individually for each caliber or as a set to cover the most popular cases.

Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Body

Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator Body By HORNADY RELOADING TOOLS ITEM DECRIPTION For use with the Hornady Lock n Load Bullet Comparator Body Inserts and the Lock n Load Overall Length Gauges (not included).. Specifications & Features: This is the comparator body only. Bullet inserts sold...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Lock-N-Load Cartridge Headspace Bushings

Lock-N-Load Cartridge Headspace Bushings by Hornady Reloading The Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gauge is ideal for measuring from the case-head to the datum line on the case shoulder to allow for proper brass resizing for a exact fit with the rifle chamber. Bushing fit the comparator body...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

Hornady Lock-N-Load Comparator Inserts

Lock-N-Load Comparator Insert by HORNADY RELOADING TOOLS Bullet Comparator Inserts are designed for use with the Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator; it elminates variables when measuring the over-all length of a bullet. Bullet length can vary a few thousandths due to material variation and tip...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

I had been using one of these to begin with. Not nearly as consistent or as versatile.

Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauges

Lyman Case Length Headspace Gauge by LYMAN Protect yourself and your firearms. To achieve the highest degree of safety and accuracy, Lyman recommends that all bottleneck rifle cases be inspected after resizing to ensure that the proper headspace dimension is maintained. The best way to check...

www.midsouthshooterssupply.com

.....I've got a lot to learn! Thank you!

 

[AJC1]

.....I've got a lot to learn! Thank you!

Wheeler method.... Alex wheeler.... has several articles you you might find very helpful. The link below I use and recommend.

223 Rem + 223 AI Cartridge Guide

223 Rem Guide for .223 Remington reloading, 223 Rem accuracy, .223 Rem hunting, 223 AI and 5.56x45 rifles. 223 Remington Brass, 22 bullets, powder, primers and loading dies for .223 Remington. Ballistics drop chart for .223 Rem, .223 Ackley AI, 2-250. 223 Remington Black rifle, service rifle...

www.6mmbr.com

 

[kmw1954]

.....I've got a lot to learn! Thank you!

None of us learned all this overnight. Just take your time, be patient, read and ask questions just as you are.
I loaded pistol for decades before I started on bottleneck cases. Quite a bit different for certain.