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New Study: From 2000 to 2018, No shootings at schools that allow teachers and staff to carry guns

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by LiveLife, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Strangely, Holmes has never mentioned choosing the particular theater for that reason and we have his diary that details his plans for the shooting and there is no mention of that aspect either. Instead, he appears to have chosen the particular theater based on its layout and exits.
    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/articl...s-holmes-wrote-in-his-notebook-before-the-aur
    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/james-holmes-diary-aurora-gun-free-zones-debunked/
     
    bearcreek likes this.
  2. FlSwampRat

    FlSwampRat Member

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    As you say, "appears". It appears to others differently:

    "So why did the killer pick the Cinemark theater? You might think that it was the one closest to the killer’s apartment. Or, that it was the one with the largest audience.

    Yet, neither explanation is right. Instead, out of all the movie theaters within 20 minutes of his apartment showing the new Batman movie that night, it was the only one where guns were banned. In Colorado, individuals with permits can carry concealed handgun in most malls, stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. But private businesses can determine whether permit holders can carry guns on their private property.

    Most movie theaters allow permit holders carrying guns. But the Cinemark movie theater was the only one with a sign posted at the theater’s entrance.

    A simple web search and some telephone calls reveal how easily one can find out how Cinemark compared to other movie theaters. According to mapquest.com and movies.com, there were seven movie theaters showing "The Dark Knight Rises" on July 20th within 20 minutes of the killer’s apartment at 1690 Paris St, Aurora, Colorado. At 4 miles and an 8-minute car ride, the Cinemark’s Century Theater wasn't the closest. Another theater was only 1.2 miles (3 minutes) away."

    It's all conjecture when you're dealing with the insane.
    As for Mother Jones debunking the gun free zone theory, they cite 5 pages detailing his plans after choosing the theater. There is nothing offered in their combing of his journal to speak to what thought process went into the choosing of the theater, only the plans made once that theater was chosen.
     
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  3. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Could we keep the discussion related to arming teachers and school shootings?

    Thank you.
     
  4. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

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    Hypothetically, let’s say there are about 100 faculty and staff at a school. Out of that number, there are about 5 gun people who have a CC permit, at least 10 years of j-frame or pocket 9 handgun experience, the commitment, discipline, and willingness to carry. I think you will never find more than 5% at any school.

    Whether they are trained and certified and carrying with the permission of the administration, or taking initiative and considerable personal risk to carry as private citizens for their own self protection, you will never see a very large percentage of staff willing or able to carry. If I calculated the probability of the event happening, I probably wouldn’t bother to carry. None of us would carry if we calculated the probability and rationally accepted it. If we are honest with ourselves, we carry out of some sense of fear, duty and responsibility that may not be strictly rational. We want to be prepared.

    The actuaries running the insurance and informing the administration about the cost/risk/benefit analysis of concealed carry to deter or defeat an active shooter on campus would disagree with us.
     
  5. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    From post #9 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...and-staff-to-carry-guns.857580/#post-11260014

    "From the new study, out of 20 states, from 2000 to 2018, there was one accidental discharge - https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...8071127064094097015009030073031020029&EXT=pdf

    School insurance rates are no higher for schools that allow teachers to carry."
     
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  6. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    And you know that their insurance is no higher, how?
     
  7. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    Since I did not conduct the study, I need to refer you to the study - https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...8071127064094097015009030073031020029&EXT=pdf

    "8 'Allowing teachers and staff to carry guns in schools doesn’t increase school insurance premiums, info from six states,' Crime Prevention Research Center, October 27, 2015

    UPDATED: Allowing Teachers And Staff To Carry Guns In Schools Doesn’t Increase School Insurance Premiums, Info From Seven States" - https://crimeresearch.org/2015/10/n...guns-in-schools-increases-insurance-premiums/
     
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  8. jamesjames

    jamesjames Member

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    I mention actuaries not in reference to insurance rates. Actuaries and administrators calculate the probability of something happening to inform the decision to take a remedial action. A principal and school board makes some sort of political calculation on the probability of an active shooter event happening. They also gauge the risk of staff carrying in terms of possible mishaps. And, of course, the politics of the decision makers themselves comes into play because none of these decisions is made in the purity of rational thought.
     
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  9. bearcreek

    bearcreek Member

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    And we've established that that study is flat wrong about the number of accidental shootings. The fact that it only takes about 90 seconds of internet browsing to see that it's wrong about that leads me to seriously doubt the validity of any other studies from the same organization.
     
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