New Surplus Shooter

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Infomet

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I'm hoping someone will save me some time with some advice/links.
I've gotten interested in some casual larger rifle shooting and have seen several posts about Moisin Nagants. There are lots of sources for them. Is there any other rifle about the same? This is back yard shooting for fun. Six inch groups at 100 yds and iron sights would be the goal.. I have a 700 in .243, if I want to get serious.

Is it typical that the guns around $100 are clean and safe?

Some (maybe all, I don't know) have had corrosive ammo shot through them.
Will I have trouble ordering a rifle with a reasonable bore?

Can I shoot surplus corrosive ammo without problems, if I clean after use?

Is all the surplus ammo "safe", as in won't blow up in the closet or damage the gun from overpressure? Grandkids will be involved.

Obviously I can watch shops or FTF, but I'm thinking they will be much more expensive. Not a problem If I get something really better. I'm in NC.

I'll appreciate whatever you have time/interest to write, so feel free to pass on advice/links/sources, etc. Thanks, Wilson
 
Typically the mosin nagants coming in are safe and the bores are good. Some may show some signs of corrisosive ammo use, but my experience as a whole, limited to the few hundred rifles I've examined in the last couple years, is the bores are good to excellent to as-new in the rearsenalled rifles. I haven't seen too many that I would consider paying more than $100.00, and some big-sports chains like Daves usually have half a dozen or so. $70-90 seems more like the going rate. Gun shows are typically filled with piles of them (at least around here and in Texas).

Corrosive Ammo is no big deal as long as you take the proper steps to immediately clean after use. Warm, soapy water will neutralize and remove the mercuric salts deposited by the corrosive primers. Follow with extremely hot water for a period of time, heating the barrel. The heat from the barrel will evaporate any remaining moisture and prevent rust.

As with any 40,50,60 year old 3rd world ammo, there is always a risk. In most east block stuff, I have heard only of decayed primers. As long as you follow the rules "count to 10" before opening the bolt and ejecting the problem round, you should be fine.

If you don't have an FFL or C&R, by the time you tack on shipping and the $25.00 to $50.00 transfer fee your dealer will charge you to process the paperwork, you were probably just as well off paying their $30.00 mark up of a SARCO import your local dealer has in stock. My rule of thumb is I will pay 10% up to a $50.00 premium to be able to support my locally owned dealer, provided they have what I need in stock or are willing to order it for me. I have an entire tub out in my garage of items I've purchased that I don't need (yet), like cleaning supplies, targets, etc. -- not because I'm stocking up, but because I try to make a purchase, even if it's only a couple dollars, every time I through their door. NOTE: This personal rule does not apply to chain stores, only to locally owned and operated stores. As a national trend, the mom & pops are a dying bread. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that we have lost 30% of them in the last 20 years.
 
Mosin Nagants

A K31 would be better, or the Finn Nagants which have better sights, finish, barrels, stocks, et. If you insist on a Mosin I suggest the longer barrel, not the short M44 carbine. The carbine is earsplittingly loud and the recoil, with all the nagants, is substancial. You get it all.

I've seen really rough ones with lots of toolmarks in the barrel that shoot well and nice ones that shoot just medium. Never seen a bad shooting one but they must be out there. Even the ones that look like they were made by a high school shop class might shoot really well.

Cheap. Spend the savings on plugs and muffs and a recoil shield.

The Finns have a heavier stock which soaks up the recoil. Nicer all around but much higher in price. You can see examples of all of these on Gunbroker.com or Auctionarms.com. That's where I would start.
 
I don't know where you are, but if you have Dunham's, Fleet Farm, Big 5, or maybe some others-you can pick one out yourself. You'll pay a little more, but you get to handpick the one you like.
I'd recommend a Mosin 91/30 for a first rifle, I think they are better balanced than the carbines, and not so much muzzle blast.
As far as ammo-the advice about rinsing your bore with hot water was spot on-even if you just run a few wet (with water) patches through, then clean like normal, you shouldn't have any trouble.
Every rifle seems to like a different type of ammo, czech is good, polish, hungarian. Buy as wide a variety as you can, and see what your rifle likes.
If you inspect individual rounds before you load them, and discard obviously split, or corroded rounds, you shouldn't have a problem.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
 
The 91/30 is more accurate, thanks to the longer barrel. But the M44 has that cool foldable bayonet.
The recoil isn't really that bad, an el-cheapo shotgun slip-on recoil pad manages it quite well. You just have to get a REALLY good shoulder weld, you don't want any slack. A sling helps a bunch.
 
If your looking for just fun shooting, I'd get the m44.it has the neat bayonet, its REALLY loud, and you'll know your shooting it (recoil is pretty stiff with the steel buttplate.I recommend a slip on recoil pad).if 6" at 100yds is accetable, the m44 should be able to do that.The 91/30's are known to be more accurate though, if you want that.Whichever one you pck, I'm sure you'll be happy.I love my m44.its a hoot!
 
My advice is a little different than what most would give.

If you are looking for a surplus gun, look for something you are interested in. I only began acquiring firearms a tad bit over a year ago (though I already had a pistol in my name and some other things) because I became so interested that I wanted a rifle. Well I started out with an M38 then an M44 and my last three Mosin Nagants have been 91/30s.

Why did I go for the Mosin Nagant over a 10/22 to start out with...because I was interested in the Mosin Nagant and the history of the rifles during their use in battle during World War II. Heck almost all the rifles used during WWII are of interest to me, not to shoot but more of a look into history. Thus I would say that you should look for something that interests you....YOU...and not him. If you are looking for something that is cheap to shoot, well a mosin nagant is not a bad choice but ammunition prices have rising mind you, or if you want something that is more accurate, look towards a Swiss 31 or the Finnish Mosin Nagants (generally more accurate). Maybe you are more interested in the American garands and what not...

My ending point is this...if you want to find a surplus rifle, go where you are interested. I know my next category that is second on my interest list is the Lee-Enfield series of rifles.
 
If you want a serious 'rifleman's rifle' get a Swiss K-31, though a Finnish mosin nagant might fit the bill too at twice the price.

My opinion of Russian mosin nagants is that they are pikes or spears that also happen to be able to go bang.
 
+1 for bvchurch's advice. Get something you are interested in. I started my modest collection with a K31 followed by an M96 Swede ... I was interested in those in particular because they would likely be in excellent shooting condition ... and they were.

Commercial ammo isn't hard to find for those and not terribly expensive. But my interest led me further along to a Russian capture K98 and a Savage built Enfield No 4 Mk1 ... and then to a nice Remington 03A3. Part of the fun for me was to study up on the rifle and learn as much as I could about them ... and oh yeah ... shooting them too.
 
OK, thanks for the help so far. I have no real historical interest, just shooting cheap. The Mosins look good and ammo is fairly cheap, even though I'm sure I haven't found the best sources. I've read about 10 cent rounds, but haven't seen them yet.

It's pretty clear that the cost of ammo is going to dominate this process. The Swiss is a great sounding piece, but ammo seems to be in the 50 cent range...not good for plinking with grandkids! Did I miss something here?

I see really cheap 7.62, but am not sure what surplus rifles use it.

I'm not as cheap as I sound. It's just that I want to see what the possibilities are. I can always shoot the old .303 British I've had for many moons!

Speaking of Swiss, I have a .41 rimfire that's probably over 100 years old. Vetterbi, or something close to that. But I'm down to my last two rounds for it. Not your everyday shooter!

Keep the ideas coming. It's fun to think of doing more shooting than I have for the past several years. Wilson
 
The Swiss is a great sounding piece, but ammo seems to be in the 50 cent range...not good for plinking with grandkids! Did I miss something here?
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for. The swiss rifle + swiss ammunition is the most accurate surplus combo, bar none. In the hands of a competent shooter, the K-31 will rival if not better the accuracy of a lot of current mass produced bolt action rifles. The mosin nagant will reliably hit clay pigeon sized targets at 100 yards if you happen to get a good one, and the sights happen to be correctly set on them (good luck with that).

The reason I look down my nose at Mosin nagants is that I'm spoiled on better surplus rifles. I own and regularly shoot several Swedish, Swiss, and US rifles. When I read posts about how accurate Mosin nagants are, I just roll my eyes as I own several of them and don't find them to be anywhere close to the standards of my 'better' surplus rifles.

That being said, a mosin is a good plinking rifle. About the only shooting I do with Mosins is plinking- shooting at plastic soda bottles at 50 yards, and milk jugs at 100 yards. Its good for offhand shooting practice at least. I just tend to steer people towards much better rifles- its a character flaw of mine;)
 
Using Ballistol to clean after using corrosive ammo eliminates the need to use the soap/water thing. Ballistol is alkaline and neutralizes the acidic salts. Smells funny though and that takes getting used to (minor). I use it in my mini 30 and the corrosive 7.62x39 hasn't caused any problems yet (500 rounds so far).
 
Based on your criteria I'd get the 91/30. Oh, wait - I did get the 91/30!

If the ammo price is the dealmaker, definitely a Mosin. I have a war veteran, a re-arsenalled would be how I'd go for a shooter.
I'd trade mine in for a K31 if I could. The 91/30 makes a nice decoration suspended from the ceiling.

The attached bayonet on the M44 is cool but I've heard stories about how that thing throws off the accuracy. One guy said he had to extend it to get the rifle to shoot straight. The detachable bayonet on the 91/30 is cool, too. You can take it off, pass it around & play with it.

But I've got 2 Swedish Mausers. Accurate & fun to shoot. Even with a steel buttplate you can shoot & shoot it. The Swedes are a major reason why the Mosin is a ceiling hanger. Unfortunately they're out of your price range. The intermediate rounds would be good for kids.

How big are the grandkids?

If ammo is a factor - 91/30
If ammo isn't a big factor - K31
If ammo & rifle cost aren't a big factor - Swede
 
the thing I hae noticed about surplus guns is get them now, their value will only go up in time, never down.

Other bargain surplus rifles at the moment

Yugoslavian model 59/66 SKS -- About $150-200, shoots 7.62x39 (cheap), semi auto, average accuarcy

Yugoslavian M48 Mauser, about $150-200, shoots 8mm (not as cheap) intermediate bolt action mauser design, bent bolt

Yugoslavian M24/47 Mauser, About $100-125, shoots 8mm, intermediate bolt action mauser design, almost identical to M48, but with straight handle and lots cheaper.

Austrian/Hungarian Steyr M95, about $100, shoots 8x56R (expensive ammo) bolt action

German Model K98 Mauser, About $200-250, Russian captured from the Nazi's in WWII, shoots 8MM, Bolt action Mauser design.

Swiss K31, About $175-200, shoots 7.5x55 (expensive ammo), straight pull bolt action, extremely accurate
 
If I were you I'd get a SKS and a pile of 7.62x39. You'll get decent accuracy and a 10 rnd semi auto for $150 + Ammo. recoil is light and they are more of a pleasure to plink with than a Nagant. You can take deer with them and a SP bullet too. I don't think you can go wrong with an SKS. The Nagant is cheaper but crude. I have 5 Nagants and 2 SKS's either way you be happy but for plinking the SKS is more enjoyable from my experiance!
 
I like the Mosin-Nagants plenty, despite their flaws! Am a hopeless military history buff & shooting a 1943 built 91/30 that I wish could TALK is one way I commune with my inner gun geek:D
The corrosive surplus ammo issue is simply dealt with by taking a funnel and dumping hot, soapy water down the bore & dipping the bolt face in the same. Clean normaly & you'll have zero problems. I have shot the hell out of my Mosin-Nagant and 2 Yugo Mausers with mil-surp ball & have had no corrosion issues.
 
OK, I'm soaking this all up. Thanks for the noise warning on the M-N carbines. That's a factor around wives and neighbors!

So how does the noise from the SKS compare to the long M-N guns?

Is there a longer gun in 7.62X39 that is less loud than the SKS?

If anyone in central NC is reading, please drop me a PM.

Thanks everyone, Wilson
 
Is there a longer gun in 7.62X39 that is less loud than the SKS?
Click to expand...

Not sure about noise, but a Ruger Mini-30 might have a longer barrel. Of course, with the price of those around $400, you could buy an SKS and a Mosin and have money left over for ammo. Up to you. I own an M44 and a Yugo SKS and love them both. And I don't need a stikin' recoil pad on my Mosin, thank you very much. :neener:
 
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